Americans dope too wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
So if I know a confessed doper that also makes me a doper? Bollocks.
No. It just shows that it wasn't just the USSR/east Germany doing it.
Sure doping is everywhere but the east Germans had state sponsored doping. Pretty big difference.
Americans dope too wrote:
No. It just shows that it wasn't just the USSR/east Germany doing it.
There is lots of evidence for large scale doping on both sides of the curtain, especially in USSR/east Germany and USA/West Germany.
Field guys Mac Wilkins (discus) and Al Feurbach (shot) made no secret about their doping.
casual obsever wrote:
Americans dope too wrote:
No. It just shows that it wasn't just the USSR/east Germany doing it.
There is lots of evidence for large scale doping on both sides of the curtain, especially in USSR/east Germany and USA/West Germany.
When one side is state-sponsored and a virtual requirement of competing that doesn't make them equivalent. The evidence is that they weren't.
Another vote to remember Don Kardong.
Armstronglivs wrote:
casual obsever wrote:
There is lots of evidence for large scale doping on both sides of the curtain, especially in USSR/east Germany and USA/West Germany.
When one side is state-sponsored and a virtual requirement of competing that doesn't make them equivalent. The evidence is that they weren't.
Agreed. Bad in the West, terribly worse in the East, I'd say.
If they aren't going to give Raelene Boyle upgraded golds due to Renate Stecher, then they will never give Shorter an upgrade.
Does anyone seriously believe that a chemically enhanced Frank Shorter would not have beaten a confirmed PED user Cierpinski????
Actually Don Kardong should....
Not practical, and could never be 'fair'. You can't cherry pick old results. I'll guess 95% of USSR/GDR/east euro results would be wiped, and probably 50%+ of the rest. It would be hilarious to see who got what, but as you go down the list the dope/no dope arguments would get too cloudy. The 1970's athletes themselves don't care anyway, they are giving away their medals or selling them on eBay.
Just some food for thought wrote:
Are you sure? wrote:
This is the first I've ever heard of that?
In his autobiography he talks about one US 1500 runner(doesn't mention any names) bragging about the powers of steroids. Just food for thought.
Steve Scott? Sydney Maree?
Yes, absolutely. I already consider Shorter a double Olympic champ.
Nick Willis, 2008 gold 1500m.
I mean, I'd love to see the record officially changed, but at this point, it's so far in the past. And it does beg the question of just how far back should we go to revise stats? It becomes a thorny political issue.
And at the end of the day, whether the medal is gold or silver, we all know who REALLY deserved it that day in '76.
No we don't, see above.
Yes, absolutely, and do it while he's still alive. The Germans have been holding this up.
I do NOT want to see the record changed. Shorter Sucks, lost a race, immediately cried foul. When he lost to other Americans, he didn't. Never whined about Rodgers breaking any rules. He is a slow, zenophobic bigot. By his own admission (several pages in more than one reworking of his autobiography) he trained primarily for 5k. Wasn't aware of specific training. Was lucky to get 2nd. What did he do 4 years after that? What did Cierpinski do? By the way, I don't believe he can run a mile without stopping now.
We know that every single competitor in the Eastern Bloc was being doped and could not compete without it.
What is wrong with retroactively stripping all of them of their medals and placings?
Do it. And while you're doing it, strip any other competitor of medals and placings who violated the letter or spirit of competition by doping with drugs (where that is proven or admitted) or using blood doping while it was still legal.
Even medalists from the 2000s and 2010s are still rife with known dopers, athletes from countries where doping was untested and rampant and protected via corruption or extortion, or athletes from systematically doping teams.
I disagree! wrote:
I do NOT want to see the record changed. Shorter Sucks, lost a race, immediately cried foul. When he lost to other Americans, he didn't. Never whined about Rodgers breaking any rules. He is a slow, zenophobic bigot. By his own admission (several pages in more than one reworking of his autobiography) he trained primarily for 5k. Wasn't aware of specific training. Was lucky to get 2nd. What did he do 4 years after that? What did Cierpinski do? By the way, I don't believe he can run a mile without stopping now.
+1
Cierpinski 2:09 PB is well within the clean limit(hello, Rodgers PB is 2:09). He trained better for the marathon and didn't take any of the vitamins other east Germans supposedly took. He won fair and square.
+1 wrote:
I disagree! wrote:
I do NOT want to see the record changed. Shorter Sucks, lost a race, immediately cried foul. When he lost to other Americans, he didn't. Never whined about Rodgers breaking any rules. He is a slow, zenophobic bigot. By his own admission (several pages in more than one reworking of his autobiography) he trained primarily for 5k. Wasn't aware of specific training. Was lucky to get 2nd. What did he do 4 years after that? What did Cierpinski do? By the way, I don't believe he can run a mile without stopping now.
+1
Cierpinski 2:09 PB is well within the clean limit(hello, Rodgers PB is 2:09). He trained better for the marathon and didn't take any of the vitamins other east Germans supposedly took. He won fair and square.
Yeah...he just trained on bread & water. ?