Engels: almost quit running because of NC State

Thanks for the first half of that hallz balz. No thank you for mansplaining How specification works. I know that some coaches specify and others do not, but I also kind of thought that some coaches who don’t really specify training find success with athletes across different distances.

Has NC State ever had quality depth in developing middle distance runners? More than 1-2 random guys over the years.

I have always had the impression that all their guys were 5/10K guys with a major emphasis on XC and track used as a training for XC.

chubb wrote:

Has NC State ever had quality depth in developing middle distance runners? More than 1-2 random guys over the years.

I have always had the impression that all their guys were 5/10K guys with a major emphasis on XC and track used as a training for XC.

We had guys like Ryan Hill when I was on the team. He was a nice guy. Humble and worked hard. I remember Craig. He clowned around a lot but so did a lot of freshman. I know I did while I was there. The men’s team is really, really big. There isn’t a lot of individualization and you don’t get much attention unless you are a top guy. I think the numbers were a symptom of that. Coach didn’t necessarily make us run hard, but we sure weren’t held back. We all wanted to be top 7 really bad and just went for it everyday in practice.

I think a big reason why myself and others stagnated was because we did a lot and did it too fast all the time. Geiger is super big on threshold work. Really high volumes that we broke up. I got to the point where I could do 4x2 mile at threshold on the track with super short rest. Again, we just went too hard on those and competed against each other so it wasn’t really threshold. It isn’t intentionally a meat grinder program but it turns out that way. I was a 7th man consistently but I didn’t improve too much from high school. I wish I knew how to train smarter back then but it is tough to control yourself when you are surrounded by so many guys working really hard.

CheckURselfCraig wrote:

They had Shanklin qualify for NCAA's in the 5k as a true sophomore. Craig also isn't telling the complete truth about why he left NC State

It’s always easy to rewrite history after the event - by now Craig has probably even convinced himself he did nothing wrong at NC

Too True wrote:

CheckURselfCraig wrote:

They had Shanklin qualify for NCAA's in the 5k as a true sophomore. Craig also isn't telling the complete truth about why he left NC State

It’s always easy to rewrite history after the event - by now Craig has probably even convinced himself he did nothing wrong at NC

Yeah I’m sure he messed up some, but his personality isn’t the norm for a distance runner, but it works for him and it worked well at ole miss.

But... that doesn’t change the fact that NC State is not doing a good job with the talent they’re getting. That is even more true.

Juice Springsteen wrote:

ODJ, that’s great but entertain me here.

So what’s this elusive meat grinder? Like 70 MPW with a lot of hard tempos and ...idk, what else?

This reminds of some Mick Byrne quote that goes something g like “you can’t handle 70 MPW? Well then I guess you can’t run”.

Insiders, How crazy can Geiger’s training be?

I would argue that if a coach gave athletes a cautious amount of difficulty in training, they’d actually be doing them a disservice. Athletes wouldn’t be given the opportunity to maximize their potential. You gotta risk it for the biscuit.

20-year old me would love to answer this ridiculous question.

Also an alum and what wolfpackboi said was pretty accurate. I think a fair statement is that training is pretty old school and works for elite talents but that doesn't translate to a coaching staff that doesn't care...Geiger loves his athletes and NC State and Craig may be the only person who talks sht about him in 40+ years coaching.

Come on Craig wrote:

Engels is allowed to feel however he wants about the culture of NC State, but the guy was caught multiple times skipping practice while he was there. One time he was even caught shopping for groceries while the team was out on an easy run . . .

I think the point he is making is that he was a guy who wanted to be able to skip practice a few times a year without being taken to task for it. Some coaches won't tolerate that. Others don't think it's the end of the world if a college kid goes grocery shopping instead of running an easy run one day. Based on the fact that he's America's premier miler today, I would give him the benefit of the doubt about knowing what kind of environment he thrives in.

He comes off as kind of an ass. I'm not surprised he wouldn't fit in at NC State - it's not a perfect program but everyone I know and ran there with is pretty darn loyal to it.

Also the hair, mustache and 'RV life pose' are an obvious, creepy Pre tribute that's gone on far too long. Let it go, man. The guy has been dead for 40 years and really wasn't all that great in the grand scheme of things, and had kind of a big mouth that didn't match his performance, globally.

Shut up and run.

Craig's personality is not trying to be like Pre at all. Have you ever heard him be cocky about his racing ability? No, the dude just loves his fans and loves to have fun with the sport. God forbid

It’s unfair to single out NC state as a cookie cutter one size fits all program. Tons of college programs are like that. I would argue that most are. It’s rare to find a coach that individualizes training. Especially with larger teams.

Let's make a list of recent NC State busts

Keep in mind we aren't talking about a roster like Oregon or Stanford who just happened to have other guys getting the job done- these state teams weren't even good

Also- Isn't the NC State school record in the 800 1:50? In how many years as a coach? God, Craig shouldn't have transferred- he should have never gone there

I guess people can pick apart every guy in this list:

He drank

he smoked weed

he skipped runs

he wasn't serious

Why not identify better people in the recruiting process?

Here is a nice ode to all the State fans in this thread. Let's pour one out for all the wasted talent this school has produced.

Tons of Footlocker finalists/ great milers and studs who sucked in college:

Ricky Brookshire

Bradsheer Wilkins

Nick Hutchins

Bobby Mack was hurt every single freaking year

Patrick Cambell

Eric Mack

Robert Bedsole

Wes Smith

Gavin Coombs

Kenny Kniesel

Ian Milder

Wyatt Maxey

Those twins from Brentwood

Phillip Hall

Sam Parsons

Bobby Mintz

Tanis Baldwin

Cody Pelliccioni

Feel free to add to this list!

He was good at the end but dog crap until his 4th year

Uhhh wasn’t Craig kicked off the NC State team for drinking on a team trip? Quite different than deciding to transfer because it isn’t a good fit, though hard to blame him for taking that route in the messaging.

Here's a newsflash to high school seniors: you've got a 50/50 chance that it will be a poor fit for you, and that is before the coach that recruited quits or gets fired at the end of your first season there.

So wait, let me get this straight. 30mpw guys went to NC State, knowing full well they’re a high mileage program - Gieger is very up front about this - and expected him to change for them once they got there? That sounds like that’s on them.

Ruppert wrote:

Here's a newsflash to high school seniors: you've got a 50/50 chance that it will be a poor fit for you, and that is before the coach that recruited quits or gets fired at the end of your first season there.

The moving around of coaches is most definitely a huge concern, but after 30 years in this business, I would say kids take way less ownership of their development. They can’t or won’t look in the mirror and see they’re partying, not doing morning runs, eating terrible and they don’t want to have a constructive dialogue to change training to be more effective. They would instead rather complain and second guess in small little unproductive and petty groups.

It is pretty common knowledge that NC State can adjust scholarship amounts as they go depending on performance.

This made me laugh:

rolling on the floor about the state appologists wrote:

Let's make a list of recent NC State busts

I guess people can pick apart every guy in this list:

He drank

he smoked weed

he skipped runs

he wasn't serious

Why not identify better people in the recruiting process?

Let me get this straight. It's the coach's fault these athletes didn't find success. But if it turns out it really was the athlete's fault, it was still the coach's fault for recruiting them. Got it.

Most runners improve a lot from high school to freshmen year in college

The coach makes the culture. If you make the same mistake 25 times, you may want to change something.