How to run the 1500 / mile- and how not to. Video analysis of men's 1500 final at 2019 USAs.

BergLaufer wrote:

Started a thread yesterday about that video, the thread was deleted. Why?

We merged the two threads into one. I replaced the first post (yours) with mine.

colorunner123 wrote:

As the race goes on, each curve becomes more important, particularly in a tactical race. For example, running in lane 2 on a 65-second first lap is not that big a deal, whereas running in lane 2 on a 25-second final 200 meters is a very big deal.

A more relevant comparison is the distances covered by Engels and Centro over the last lap. Did that make a difference?

Rojo getting some love from a big journalist.

https://twitter.com/nxthompson/status/1156633488734543872

Just Another Hobby Jogger wrote:

colorunner123 wrote:

As the race goes on, each curve becomes more important, particularly in a tactical race. For example, running in lane 2 on a 65-second first lap is not that big a deal, whereas running in lane 2 on a 25-second final 200 meters is a very big deal.

A more relevant comparison is the distances covered by Engels and Centro over the last lap. Did that make a difference?

Centro ran the entire last lap on the outside of Lane 1. This added at least 2 meters to the ciircuit. Engels, by contrast, was on the rail. In the end, Engels prevailed by less than 1 meter. So, yes, it made a difference. Ironically Engels did to Centro what Centro did to the rest of the field at Rio in 2016.

so how does BB get to go to the world championships? he was 4th. as an alternate? or does 3rd place not have the standard?

100% correct. The only time "running extra" because of lane position matters is when the athletes are running hard. Time trials. Running at tactical paces like that one what matters is positioning and execution. All elite athletes know this, and so do all coaches of elite athletes.

The topic and the ensuing discussion is all interesting, and is good content for this board.

It seems logical that if you want to have the maximum amount of energy left with 400 to go, then whatever you can do in the first 1100 to conserve energy while also maintaining strategic position will impact how fast you can go in the last 400. Running extra distance to hit the same pace has to cost incremental energy, no matter how small an amount, leaving a small fraction less available for the kick. This could cost the fractions of a second between placing or not.

In Johnny's case though , here's an outlandish thesis: He had an OFF DAY. He's human- it happens, and for all sorts of reasons. His last 400 was no where near what it has been in other similar races regardless of lanes. 9 times out of 10 he can close in 52, but he just didn't have it that day.

JG is an established great runner , clearly one of USA's top 3-5 on most any day. I will say I see him as a 3:52 miler not withstanding the 3:49 as I think race times on the BU indoor track are an anomaly for most. In the past season there were virtual journeymen no one has heard of who ran 3:54, 55 there that while trying to peak on an outdoor track are a good 3-4 seconds slower.

Maybe someone with the time can look more closely at the disparity between times in and out at BU and offer a plausible explanation.

Another important thing that matters is fitness. Gregorek is a 3:49 miler but I almost guarantee you he wasn’t in 3:49 shape on this day. If you’re in 3:49 shape in such a ‘slow’ race you can bounce around and you’ll have the fitness to finish hard.

He didn’t have it.

Also, what kind of 400m speed does he have? Do we know?

Malmo gets it. Rojo thinks hes John Madden lol

Rojo, can't wait for your analysis of Woody Kincaid. That should be interesting.

We all knew that rojo can't spell, do arithmetic and knows no grammar rules, but he also really has a hard time speaking. Did he have some head trauma? Did wejo dope slap him too many times in the womb?

Clown Posse wrote:

We all knew that rojo can't spell, do arithmetic and knows no grammar rules, but he also really has a hard time speaking. Did he have some head trauma? Did wejo dope slap him too many times in the womb?

Can't do arithmetic. Sorry folks.

I just love listening to rojo talk, I could listen to it all day wrote:

I just love listening to rojo talk, I could listen to it all day. Rojo, please start recording audio books.

what we really need is a: Rojo-ASMR channel -nighty-nite MFers

"So what you are trying to......the intended goal of......would you say... would you agree too.... that 'sleep' is the targeted outcome here? What exactly are you doing to try to achieve this? Or not doing? And why are you not, per se? Is it really that hard...sleep I mean? This is completely ridiculous... I don't get it...If you cant to sleep....close your eyes..Bam!...you're sleeping, right? What am I missing? Close eyes, saw logs. Am I completely wrong here? Utterly ridiculous. I mean I ...I...I just don't get it. Next question"

Very nice analysis.

One coach that has told his guys to run first lane is Gjert I.

It has led to incidences, especially with Filip, but overall they have suceeded with this approach.

Jakob is a bit more pragmatic, but when he goes he goes.

Pains my soul to say this, but Rojo is right, it absolutely matters.

I have watched and rewatched tons of championship 1500s and agree with rojo on this one.

From 300 to 1100 in Gregorek ran way wide, made a number of moves and gained no position.

Even at a slow pace that takes more energy and saps reserves.

An equivalent runner that stays even and runs a shorter distance will have more left for the drive to the finish.

Agreed. If you watch from about 7:10 in the video, approaching the bell lap, Blankenship actually got bumped pretty hard by the guy to his right which caused him to lose balance and almost step into the infield. He was lucky this didn't go much worse for him.

Sorry, that was at 9:10 into the video.

What's really interesting is the mass psychology that produces such slow times in championships. Among other things, those races depend on the willingness of fast runners to exhaust themselves by running in outside lanes and accepting the leadership of slower runners in front. Obviously, tactics that exploit that psychology are important: the crown jewel was Centrowitz's gold medal run. I've watched the video of his victory a dozen times and each time have marveled at the dominance he had over the fastest runners in the world. I'm sure Rojo could pick apart the racing tactics of any one of those faster guys in that race and give that guy the treatment he gave Gregorek in this race.