Training like the ingebrigtsens

Llkfjdjdjdj wrote:

Would definitely be interesting to hear more about your friend’s time training with Team Ingebrigtsen.

What year was this?

What are some more details about the training (is the mileage as high as Gjert claims? How easy are the easy days, etc.)

I posted some more information about the training in this thread:

My first post about it begins at the bottom of the 1st page (5th-to-last post) and I answer some questions about it.

Couple things of note:

-The threshold work is really twice a day two times a week and the total volume can tally up to be something very, very large

-Their runs in between are incredibly slow for their caliber and for some reason they used HR monitors. Sometimes they would WALK up hills if their HR got to high (which it will because that is the nature of how HR works when going uphill)

-Saturday hill repeats is how they keep their "speed" and "turn over" year round. It is very very hard and my friend was never able to hang with them on these.

Just read some of the stuff in there and I think it will answer most of your questions. Please keep in mind the training was only for 6 weeks and was during a transitional period prepping for a season.

I know they measure their lactate for threshold but would you say the pace they ran at was slightly slower than half marathon pace?

Thyla wrote:

I know they measure their lactate for threshold but would you say the pace they ran at was slightly slower than half marathon pace?

When my friend trained with them they only used HR monitors and not lactate meters. Without a doubt they use the meters during the training though. You can clearly see that in a lot of their social media posts and also on the youtube documentary. As for the pacing, all he mentioned it was the same no matter the length of the rep. When he was in Dullstroom they did everything by time instead of distance. So a 3 min threshold rep was pretty much the same pace as the 10 min threshold reps. I know it has been reported they do things like 25x400m and other short threshold reps as a secondary session....but he never saw any of that in the training camp. However, if it is sourced from the Ingebrigsten's then they probably do those 400m threshold sessions in some other training environment.

To be honest with you, I believe he was running his threshold too fast to get a good grip on what they were doing because he mostly just tagged along for workouts. On his GPS they were extremely consistent with pacing though. They have a fantastic innate feeling for pacing. Again, the pacing was not any different regardless of the length of the rep. As for being close to half-marathon pace....the only thing we can ascertain is that Gert once said after a threshold test where Jakob posted some amazing result, he commented on him being able to "potentially" run a half-marathon in under 60min. If that is the benchmark, then they probably situate it on roughly what you could hold for an hour, which is what a lot of American literature has pegged it as. For elites that is close to half-marathon pace and for mortals it is slower.

LastchanceH wrote:

After my track season ends I am going to start training similar to how the ingebrigtsens train and see how it goes, if I get injured I’ll just go back to normal training, plan will look similar to this

Mon- 2 x 6 mile easy run + sprints

Tue- AM - 4 x 8 min threshold

PM- 7 x 4 min threshold

Wed- 2 x 6 mile easy run

Thur- 3 x 10 min threshold

9 x 3 min threshold

Fri- 8 mile easy run

Sat- 20 x 200m hill repeats

Sun- 14 mile long run

With warm up/down it should be about 95-100 miles, which isn’t too much more than what I’m used to doing

It's quite interesting to see people believe it's just a matter of try to copy world top runners training programs, and then they think it will lead to great individual results.Several of the other Norwegian runners have tried to copy the Ingebrigtsen's training , but so far it's still light years in between. Talent has a very great importance!

the training routine looks good, just remember the other (more important) half

M: Testosterone

T: Off

W: EPO

T: Off

F: HGH

S: Off

S: Good old-fashioned blood doping (infusion of your own RBC that were removed previously)

Former Sub 14:00 wrote:

Thyla wrote:

I know they measure their lactate for threshold but would you say the pace they ran at was slightly slower than half marathon pace?

As for the pacing, all he mentioned it was the same no matter the length of the rep. When he was in Dullstroom they did everything by time instead of distance. So a 3 min threshold rep was pretty much the same pace as the 10 min threshold reps.

Again, the pacing was not any different regardless of the length of the rep. As for being close to half-marathon pace....the only thing we can ascertain is that Gert once said after a threshold test where Jakob posted .

The same principle in Sang's and coachjs training systems! Running lactate thresholds at the same pace no matter of the length of the rep. Boom!

Which days would they strength train? I can’t imagine doing a double threshold session in one day and lifting between sessions or after the second session. But then again, I’m just a mere mortal.

They do not do dedicated anaerobic training.

What is the physiological reasoning behind the double threshold runs? Exhaust one type of muscle fiber so that the other type is recruited in the second run and adapts?

Since you seem to be in the know do you think you could throw together a sample week or two during the base period for a person with a threshold of 5 min per mile or 3:07 per K? I have seen several people try to re-create their schedule from articles but I would be interested in seeing your take.

Would also be interested in this! You don't have to be perfect, just use what you know about them and their training and use what you know as coach to fill the gaps!

The same theme! wrote:

Former Sub 14:00 wrote:

As for the pacing, all he mentioned it was the same no matter the length of the rep. When he was in Dullstroom they did everything by time instead of distance. So a 3 min threshold rep was pretty much the same pace as the 10 min threshold reps.

Again, the pacing was not any different regardless of the length of the rep. As for being close to half-marathon pace....the only thing we can ascertain is that Gert once said after a threshold test where Jakob posted .

The same principle in Sang's and coachjs training systems! Running lactate thresholds at the same pace no matter of the length of the rep. Boom!

Are you sure? How do you know that?

Probably similar to the philosophy of doing doubles as with a break in between you can do more volume , instead of 15k of threshold at oncec you can split it up and do 20k without tiring yourself out as much

As for the pacing, all he mentioned it was the same no matter the length of the rep. When he was in Dullstroom they did everything by time instead of distance. So a 3 min threshold rep was pretty much the same pace as the 10 min threshold reps.

Again, the pacing was not any different regardless of the length of the rep. As for being close to half-marathon pace....the only thing we can ascertain is that Gert once said after a threshold test where Jakob posted .[/quote]

The same principle in Sang's and coachjs training systems! Running lactate thresholds at the same pace no matter of the length of the rep. Boom![/quote]

Are you sure? How do you know that?[/quote] I have studied the schedules I have seen from Kipchoge's training. Regardless of the length of the reps in his cruise intervals the pace is the same and close to half-marathon pace.Same with JS thresholds,regardless of the length of the reps the pace is the same and close to half-marathon pace. Checked it up at his facebook group.

Is there any concern of eroding aerobic ability by running the double thresholds during base or is that OK long as you stay at or below threshold?

This is what a week looked like for my friend who trained with them:

Monday: 10 miles am + fast striding, 5 miles pm

Tuesday: 5x(6 min on, 90 sec off) @ threshold am, 7x(3 min on, 1 min off) @ threshold pm

Wednesday: 8 miles am, 5 miles pm

Thursday: 3x(10 min on, 2.5 min off) @ threshold am, 4x(8 min on, 2 min off) @ threshold pm

Friday: 9 miles am, 5 miles pm

Saturday: He only got up to 14 hill repeats, the brothers did more. These are on a very gradual hill. It is about ~250m. They go quite fast but still remain with good form. Jog down and go again. He was always toasted on this day (probably from going too hard on threshold and also not being as good over 1500m as them).

Sunday: 18 miles

That's what he did. The brothers generally did less on the M-W-F-Sun. They ran by kilometers and would go like roughly 6-8 miles and their second run would be the same. My friend was a little more traditional and did longer am runs and shorter pm runs. The brothers also didn't really do a "long" run. That run was usually 20 kilometers on Sunday. The last two weeks of the 6 week period he was up there he had to cut back on his long run because it was unsustainable with the aerobic workload + hills he was putting in. The brothers ran their Mon-Fri-Sun at around 6:20-6:30 pace roughly. Their pm session and Wednesday run was very slow and they just went by HR. My friend said it was tough running with them as he felt like he wasn't running smooth on the recovery runs -- too slow.

The weeks never deviated. Pretty much same thing week after week after week..... very monotonous. The striding they do are very fast accelerations. The lack of a long run is startling, but isn't the purpose of a long run to get you aerobically fit? Why the need for that when they are doing so much damn threshold.

Wouldn’t they lose the benefits of the workouts if they do the same exact thing week after week? I think Canova has posted that a workout loses its effectiveness with each repeated time you do it or something like that. Doing months and months of threshold work doesn’t lose its effectiveness as a training pace?

Which days did they do gym work?

Saturday Long Run? wrote:

Wouldn’t they lose the benefits of the workouts if they do the same exact thing week after week? I think Canova has posted that a workout loses its effectiveness with each repeated time you do it or something like that. Doing months and months of threshold work doesn’t lose its effectiveness as a training pace?

Which days did they do gym work?

Why would training lose effectiveness if it is constantly progressing? I am sure as they get more fit the threshold pace changes right? Doesn’t seem like stagnation would occur if a variable is always changing.