I have a theory that most people recommending lifting on running message boards are in denial about the ideal running physique being gaunt and unattractive. They've convinced themselves that they can have their cake and eat it too.
I have a theory that most people recommending lifting on running message boards are in denial about the ideal running physique being gaunt and unattractive. They've convinced themselves that they can have their cake and eat it too.
How quick people are to forget Jordan Hasay lifting Hasay a few days out from the Boston Marathon.
The purpose of lifting for marathoners is muscle coordination, general strength, and range of motion. There is not much reason to do heavy weights, since there is not much explosive power needed to run a marathon. It is necessary to retain the force and the pounding of the roads on your joints, that is the main purpose of lifting for a marathoner.
brickrunnin wrote:
Mikeh33 wrote:
I don’t think anyone knowledgeable says a marathoner needs to lift heavy. That’s really for sprinters/middle distance runners.
One of many studies-
http://sport1.uibk.ac.at/lehre/burtscher/efficiency-artikel,2008.pdfI'll leave you with this thought, when you run how much of your body weight does your leg have to absorb upon impact and throughout the stance cycle? The other side of it, how much force (in reference to body weight) do you have to exert to become airborne?
Answer those two questions and you will re-think how you view lifting.
Multiple studies have also showed that anything above 80 mpw is a waste of time.
I'm only lifting so that I can pass the push ups or pull ups (trying to decide between Army and the Marines) for the PT test. I did 10 neutral grip pull ups after my run this evening. They were with strict form and pausing for a moment at the bottom. I don't know how it affecting my running. But I do get a good sense from just getting strong.
Bodyweight exercises such as push ups, pull ups and planks will do a lot more for running than hitting the weight room because bodyweight exercises are recruiting a lot of core muscles. A strong and flexible core is needed to run fast, engaging your core as much as possible while maintaining form and balance is the key to explosive power in running. Squatting and benching weight does nothing for running. Plyometrics and full ramge of movement with lighter weights is how you develop lean, functional strength (and muscle tone).
Most of us agree you need to have an aerobic base first to get the full benefit from running when you finaly progress to hard workouts, most newbies make the mistake of skipping the whole base training and go straight into tempo runs and 6 x 100 sprints (getting much, much slower each time) then get frustrated when they end up injured.
Weightlifting is no different, in order to get the full benefit out of it and stay injury free, it is best to build a lot of muscle tone by repeating very fast movements with lighter weights, this will get those fast twitch muscles waking up - vital to building speed and it will prevent injury when you finally DO hit the big weights. Most people dive straight into heavy weights and finding out how much they can bench or squat when they haven’t even recruited the right muscles to actually perform the lift/movement in a way that will benefit them long term. Sure, you’ll back on 20lbs of muscle in the short term and your lifts/stats will increase but hey, enjoythe constant injuries and that bad back that will creep up on you at age 33.
On the contrary wrote:
Mind muscle connection wrote:
Lifting heavy increases the amount of muscle fibers you can recruit. Not that would be useful or anything for running.
lifting up weights connected with a straight bar has little functionality when compared to the movement of running. Putting 300 pounds on your back and squatting it up and down basically ruins your running mechanics or does very little to enhance or improve your skills at ...running. Does it look like these African Aerobic Mutants lift anything heavy ...nonsense, these guys are skinny AF.
Who in their right mind said a 120 lb man has 300 lbs on the squat rack?
Runners in 2019 still utterly clueless with what "strength" training means, and the only sport that still fears the weight room..I just don't get it..
Ignorance summed up in, "lift heavy" wtf does that even mean? 300 lb squat to a D1 safety is a warm up set, hell even an above average HS athlete..strength is all relative..but the belief that it can't benefit, especially a runner past 30 is just plain ignorance.
One of the greatest american distance runners ever, Ryan Hall has stated on several occasions now, that his career could have greatly benefited from the weight room. Not necessarily the volume or training he's doing now, but more specific to complement the abuse 100+ mpw puts your body through.
When you're 23, the body is firing on all cylinders..fast forward 7-10+ years later, more preventative measures need to be taken, more than just getting more mpw. Ever wonder why there are so many over use injuries in the sport? So many problems with fatigue, hormone imbalance, immune system suppression?
maybe this wrote:
How quick people are to forget Jordan Hasay lifting Hasay a few days out from the Boston Marathon.
So you're saying body-weight exercises then?
Mr. Natural wrote:
maybe this wrote:
How quick people are to forget Jordan Hasay lifting Hasay a few days out from the Boston Marathon.
So you're saying body-weight exercises then?
...lifting heavy, I meant. I am old and feeble-minded.
Mikeh33 wrote:
I don’t think anyone knowledgeable says a marathoner needs to lift heavy. That’s really for sprinters/middle distance runners.
Salazar does this with Hasay and others.
Mo Farah is said to be able to deadlift over 200 ibs. For someone that weighs 120 odd ibs, that's pretty good.
I don't know what Mo was doing. There was a video where he was squatting a minuscule amount, in comparison to Makh Daddy, who was doing something like 450 lbs for a 1/4 squat, but Hasay was dead lifting 205 lbs, twice her body weight.
"Her hour-long strength-training sessions began with a warm-up of dynamic stretching, followed by core and hip work and some kettlebell drills. Next came the heavy work: She deadlifted 205 pounds (twice her body weight) and box squatted the same, usually doing circuits with those two moves plus air lunges and box jumps."
From Shape.com
maybe this wrote:
How quick people are to forget Jordan Hasay lifting Hasay a few days out from the Boston Marathon.
And now she's injured again.
Haydn wrote:
Bodyweight exercises such as push ups, pull ups and planks will do a lot more for running than hitting the weight room because bodyweight exercises are recruiting a lot of core muscles. .
You're contradicting yourself. Squats and deadlifts recruit the core massively. Wanting more core engagement is a reason to lift, not a reason to go bodyweight only. Overhead presses, snatches or overhead squats are virtually impossible to execute properly without effective engagement of the core.
Distance guys are unlikely to bulk up due to the demands of the rest of their training , but for sprinters/jumpers lifting low reps high weight is the best way to get high levels of neuromuscular adaptation with minimal hypertrophy - there's a reason that bodybuilders don't lift low reps/high weight - that 8-12 rep range is where they want to be working.
I'm not saying everyone should lift, nor that you can't come up with highly demanding bodyweight exercises - a one arm pull up or a full range chest fly on sliders requires very high levels of strength for example. But if you're going to decide not to use weights, at least understand your reasoning behind it.
Who needs weights when you have epo?
Epojoe wrote:
Who needs weights when you have epo?
Beat me to it. It sounds glib, but the overwhelming evidence is that more Kenyans are on EPO than are lifting weights of any consequence.
GGGG wrote:
Haydn wrote:
Bodyweight exercises such as push ups, pull ups and planks will do a lot more for running than hitting the weight room because bodyweight exercises are recruiting a lot of core muscles. .
You're contradicting yourself. Squats and deadlifts recruit the core massively. Wanting more core engagement is a reason to lift, not a reason to go bodyweight only. Overhead presses, snatches or overhead squats are virtually impossible to execute properly without effective engagement of the core.
Distance guys are unlikely to bulk up due to the demands of the rest of their training , but for sprinters/jumpers lifting low reps high weight is the best way to get high levels of neuromuscular adaptation with minimal hypertrophy - there's a reason that bodybuilders don't lift low reps/high weight - that 8-12 rep range is where they want to be working.
I'm not saying everyone should lift, nor that you can't come up with highly demanding bodyweight exercises - a one arm pull up or a full range chest fly on sliders requires very high levels of strength for example. But if you're going to decide not to use weights, at least understand your reasoning behind it.
beat me to it. Im not going to go into the benefits of heavy wt few reps or light weight high reps... but man oh man, the squat is one of the best core exercises there is!
Hills. Run them.
Elite marathon runners are too skinny and small to lift heavy weights. Others are not and should lift them.
Andy Dufresne wrote:
I have a theory that most people recommending lifting on running message boards are in denial about the ideal running physique being gaunt and unattractive. They've convinced themselves that they can have their cake and eat it too.
Sorry to go grammar maven on you, Andy, but what would be the point of having a cake you could not eat? I suppose you could sell it or give to someone who could eat it. But I'm pretty sure the proper expression should be something like you can't eat your cake and still have it.