Maybe one day we'll learn that leaving these kids alone is the best way for them to develop.
Besides, if you're a "fan" of HS sports there's something wrong with you anyway. Someone made a comment about her weight! SHAME ON YOU!!!
Leave the kids alone, they're just kids. That includes you rojo.
consider this wrote:
It’s call puberty wrote:
Pretty good point. All things being equal in terms of training, a male should get better every single year just going through puberty. But girls don’t really tend to do that. In fact, just from thinking about the girls who were monsters as freshman and sophomores when I was in high school, a lot actually get worse as they get older. Most average girls I think tend to get better year over year, but they aren’t running crazy times or anything. I think most girls that are exceptional at a young age (8th, 9th, 10th grade), actually tend to get worse or stay stagnant after they get into their 11th and 12th grade years. It’s hard to maintain that kind of level once you start becoming a woman instead of a girl. The increased body fat, wider hips, etc (which is a good thing for healthy women) just don’t allow it most times. I can think of plenty of girls from when I was in school that were absolutely studs running crazy times at little 8th and 9th grade twigs, then puberty starts to come around 10th grade and they just don’t get better or get worse. But like you said, if they can get through high school healthy with good training, a good college coach can bring them back to a high level once they are used to their mature body, just takes some time to get used to
Girls don't go through puberty in 10th grade, or very very seldom do (that's more likely to happen in 6th than 10th).
exactly what I was thinking. lol @ the guys thinking girls hit puberty in 10th grade.
another bites the dust wrote:
Next!
Post of the century
as a pro female runner i can tell you wrote:
Girls don't go through puberty in 10th grade, or very very seldom do (that's more likely to happen in 6th than 10th).
Actually, it is very common in female distance runners at the elite level to go through puberty much later than usual due to stresses associated with training load/volume, low body fat preventing mestuation from starting etc.[/quote]
Not that many are at the elite level at age 12.
In my view shutting the season down is smart but I do worry the damage has already been done(not recently but over the course of the last 2 years).
She may very well likely never come close to her times again and that will 100% be due to how she has trained.
Not sure if they are still thinking of potentially going after XC and aiming for the trials but I believe that to be a big mistake, one that could end her career very quickly. She’s super talented and has shown the ability to work hard and be a great racer. But the next year is a fragile year didn’t her where physical and mental changes will be taking place. Trying to force her into something she’s isn’t ready for puts a big burden on her. If I were the coach I’d be helping her figure out the best college to go to that works best for her. Cause in reality even at not her best she will still be a solid college runner, help a team and win a lot. That gives her 3-5 years to work through body changes and gets herself back to where her body can handle working super hard. I believe she can still be an absolute stud, but the choices they have already made hurt that and the ones they have to make in the next year can hurt or help.
Stephanie Jenks was a op 3 recruit a few
years ago. She never ran a step in college before quitting. Dont assume that a 90% Tuohy will run either.
Coaches need to take a lesson from Salazar. When he was coaching Galen Rupp in high school he wasn’t worried about Galen training for the trials or crushing every race. He kept him at a pretty low mileage and training. He wasn’t worried if Galen came in second. He knew the goal was to have Galen peak years from high school. I hope she gets some rest and takes a down year or two. She’s a terrific talent but she may be another case of too much too soon.
rojo wrote:
Hejendo76 wrote:
Yep. Tuohy has shut down her season. Thoughts?
Thought #1. Anytime a teenage woman doesn't PR in a given year, I get VERY, VERY worried. Actually I probably get worried if it's male or female but very worried if it's a woman, and that was certainly the case this year.
[.
So, this year KT was a woman, but hasn’t necessarily been so in prior years?
Hound dog looks at it a different way . Yeah she is not running her best but she just beat Chemiel by 15 seconds and she is the 2nd best runner in the country . She has no competition and is bored . She needs to go pro , seriously .
Chris P wrote:
She did PR this year. She had an amazing cross country season where she said personal records as well as National records. And she had an amazing winter season where she set a personal record as well as a national record in a 3,000
And this spring was probably her toughest academic time of her High School career so it's no surprise that she wasn't quite as fast
agree, and as recently as April she was fine, with the strong 3200 and strong 1600 DMR leg. So something went south in the last 1 1/2 months. Academics, Sinus infection, fatigue, or something else, who knows? Somewhere in there were 2 Proms as well.
Wow, an overtrained mega-mileage HS girl gets injured? Shocking.
And other "phenom" down the tubes...
Hopefully not, though. She needs to rest, get her head on straight, lose weight, and focus on speedier (800-1500) training and scale the miles back. No reason for these HS kids to attempt elite 10,000 meter training. Look at what happened to Ritz.
Salazar lessons wrote:
Coaches need to take a lesson from Salazar. When he was coaching Galen Rupp in high school he wasn’t worried about Galen training for the trials or crushing every race. He kept him at a pretty low mileage and training. He wasn’t worried if Galen came in second. He knew the goal was to have Galen peak years from high school. I hope she gets some rest and takes a down year or two. She’s a terrific talent but she may be another case of too much too soon.
Huh?
Salazar took Galen to Europe in high school to run against the best adults, where Galen set the amazing high school record of 13:37 for 5000m. That didn't happen without a lot of planning and killer training.
rojo wrote:
Thought #1. Anytime a teenage woman doesn't PR in a given year, I get VERY, VERY worried. Actually I probably get worried if it's male or female but very worried if it's a woman, and that was certainly the case this year.
Here are a couple of examples of our very best runners who didn't PR every year in high school:
Shelby Houlihan (11th): Didn't PR in any event
Jenny Barringer (12th grade): Didn't PR in any event and didn't come within 15 seconds of her 3200 PR
Those are the first two progressions I looked at. To ease your extreme worry, maybe your forum regulars can help out with some other examples.
Hey there wrote:
Jsxjxjzjznz wrote:
Don't act like you are some kind of hero because you say, "what everyone is thinking." This poor girl could read these forums and enough with real issues because of you.
Is this a running forum or a weight loss/emotional support forum? Yes, it sucks if she has some emotional problem due to her weight gain. Yes, her slow times are likely due to her weight gain.
If she wants to continue to be a competitive runner she will need to address it, or she can continue to go home devestated.
She is NOT overweight....she has muscles. which will only help her down the road....The high school runners who are only good because they are twigs never go anywhere.... Its the actual talents who can run fast and be healthy weight, and they will have long careers. All the best to Katelyn!
Yes you can gain 5-10 pounds and become a different runner almost overnight.
longjack wrote:
if you do college season and then go all the way to the olympics.
then you are ruined for years.
ok...no!
Look at those huge muscles on Klosterhalfen. Look at those huge muscles on Schweizer. Maybe Tuohy will be a weightlifter in her 20s and that's what muscles will help with?
big dave22 wrote:
And other "phenom" down the tubes...
I'd like to go down the tubes so I can win every race I run all season -- XC, indoor, and outdoor -- in times that are equivalent to or better than the times I ran last year at the same points in the season (with the exception of two spectacular peak weeks last May/June when I set national records).
Yes, please let me get overtrained and obese and sick and over-stressed from school so that I can go down the tubes.
Let's stop with this theory that a HS coach needs to take the training to the next level so that they can adjust to COLLEGE training.
How about college coaches learn how to develop talent coming from various training environments. Stop the one size fits all training method and adapt the training to the individuals background, then build them up.
And yes, there are physiological changes that seem to be fairly common for female distance runners between soph and junior year. Not sure if there is any medical proof that it is real, but that was the time that there was a change in many of the HS girls I worked with.
Hounddogharrier wrote:
Up and out wrote:
Yes you can gain 5-10 pounds and become a different runner almost overnight.
I’ve seen her run and she doesn’t look overweight. If she did pick up 5 extra pounds that’s when the parents need to step in .
5 extra pounds? The parents need to step in? My daughter frequently ran under 18 in high school with a pr of 17:33. The last thing we did when she gained 5 extra pounds is "step in". Now I've heard it all.