@wejo
I agree with your discussion of the "club" vs. "sponsor" issue.
> Kawauchi lives in Japan
You meant to write Yamauchi .
@wejo
I agree with your discussion of the "club" vs. "sponsor" issue.
> Kawauchi lives in Japan
You meant to write Yamauchi .
For the person arguing tactics and competition, it appears you did not watch or pay attention to the race.
Jim had to battle Andrews, a competitor for the first half of the race, as Jim had to chase him down, then he had to work on Yamauchi.
There were about 4-5 clubs represented in this race.
Not sure what the issue is.
Should we take away Roger Bannister's first sub-4?
@Wejo, was there drug testing at this event (pre-comp and/or in-competition)? Are any of these guys subject to any type of out of competition testing or do they only stand a chance of being drug tested at an event?
Everybody could enter Desert Solcise until a certain entry number was reached. After that it was a more selective process. But if you had the right credentials. Quite different than the Hoka race.
not a competition. wrote:
The sport doesn't need scripted time trials. Only real competition counts for records.
“The sport” “needs” things that are based on the performance of running, jumping, throwing, or some combination thereof, and which are fair, honorable, and just.
Please explain why a time trial cannot satisfy these criteria, and in particular why the Hoka event did not.
Because the Hoka stunt was set up for one person as a time trial. Any really rich person could put on an exclusive Breaking 2 / Hoka type of stunt run and claim they set a record.
Sprintgeezer wrote:
“The sport” “needs” things that are based on the performance of running, jumping, throwing, or some combination thereof, and which are fair, honorable, and just.
There are lists for records for all types of performances. Club records, course records, age records, wearing suits records, backwards running records, US born only records. And on they go.
How about Semenya? Regardless of Xs, Ys, of combinations, she should be allowed to compete. But, "the sport" keeps making up rules (relay team socks must all match) and exceptions (drugs).
Just walked into the conversation wrote:
Should we take away Roger Bannister's first sub-4?
Exactly. Even with Bannister there was controversy because of his use of rabbits and one of the rabbits hung back so he could rabbit after he was lapped.
TLDR: guy breaks record, bureaucrats say “no dice”
We just had our Monday call and all agreed if they keep the 50 mile record for someone because they didn't finish a 100k race (didn't happen here) it's an example of what's wrong with our sport. Like when you DQ some high school team because one guy had one split sports and another guy had on half tights. So same thing with Jim's run. He ran 50 miles faster than anyone previously and this was a bonafide race with the Tyler Andrews moving up in distance, Yamauchi the two time defending world champ racing, and Reagan and Wardian. Record should count. I could care less they are all from same sponsor. Also we may just start calling everything a "World record". So if someone breaks the 500m "World record" we'll just call it a world record and then put an asterik and at the bottom denote the IAAF doesn't recognize it as an official record.
KeepItCleann wrote:
@Wejo, was there drug testing at this event (pre-comp and/or in-competition)? Are any of these guys subject to any type of out of competition testing or do they only stand a chance of being drug tested at an event?
Definitely was drug testing. They were very tuned in with making sure this was record eligible on this front.
And I guess for the utlras, it can be really hard to pee afterwards. I talk to Patrick Reagan probably an hour after he finished and he was sitting there talking to his drug tester. Still hadn't gone the bathroom. He told the drug tester, "a 6 pack usually does the trick" but they didn't have any beer.
Obviously a gray area. It is not like a diamond league meet anyone can just sign up. If the only athletes in a diamond league event happened to all be Nike athletes is it still record eligible. Yes.
Bruce Fordyce comment about Walmsleys run:
https://www.brucefordyce.com/post/we-borrow-world-records-but-we-keep-titles
Clubbed wrote:
Because the Hoka stunt was set up for one person as a time trial. Any really rich person could put on an exclusive Breaking 2 / Hoka type of stunt run and claim they set a record.
Such an exercise would be neither honorable nor fair to other athletes if the result was fraudulently misrepresented, but I can’t see how such a run being a time trial would affect anything adversely.
ages wrote:
Sprintgeezer wrote:
“The sport” “needs” things that are based on the performance of running, jumping, throwing, or some combination thereof, and which are fair, honorable, and just.
There are lists for records for all types of performances. Club records, course records, age records, wearing suits records, backwards running records, US born only records. And on they go.
How about Semenya? Regardless of Xs, Ys, of combinations, she should be allowed to compete. But, "the sport" keeps making up rules (relay team socks must all match) and exceptions (drugs).
And all those records are legitimate if they comport with the criteria, and if they are in time-trial or other form.
Rules decided by some governing body like the IAAF are there to furtherand support the principles that they articulate. How does a time trial disrespect those principles?
From the man himself wrote:
Bruce Fordyce comment about Walmsleys run:
https://www.brucefordyce.com/post/we-borrow-world-records-but-we-keep-titles
"LETTER TO JIM WALMSLEY
Congratulations Jim Walmsley on setting a new World record for 50 miles at the Hoka One One race ,and for running with such courage and dignity.
I would be lying if I said the news of your success didn’t cause a slight wrench in my heart and a dull sense of regret that lasted some time. Suddenly I was no longer the World record holder for 50 miles. "
TLDR...
"I have heard rumours that there is some technical reason that your record might not be ratified. As far as I am concerned you have run a recorded 50 miles faster than anyone else.
You are the record holder!
Once again, congratulations Jim. "
Looks like the torch is passed.
A new precedent for ultra records is set; time trial everything with the help of your mates acting as participants in a race. It's an evolution.
What records could be caught by US ultra runners in this manner? Probably all of them except Yannis.
Bruce made a typo in that: He meant to say the Comrades runners pass through 50-miles in 4:43 some years (not 5:43)
TLDR alert wrote:
From the man himself wrote:
Bruce Fordyce comment about Walmsleys run:
https://www.brucefordyce.com/post/we-borrow-world-records-but-we-keep-titles"LETTER TO JIM WALMSLEY
Congratulations Jim Walmsley on setting a new World record for 50 miles at the Hoka One One race ,and for running with such courage and dignity.
I would be lying if I said the news of your success didn’t cause a slight wrench in my heart and a dull sense of regret that lasted some time. Suddenly I was no longer the World record holder for 50 miles. "
TLDR...
"I have heard rumours that there is some technical reason that your record might not be ratified. As far as I am concerned you have run a recorded 50 miles faster than anyone else.
You are the record holder!
Once again, congratulations Jim. "
Looks like the torch is passed.
A new precedent for ultra records is set; time trial everything with the help of your mates acting as participants in a race. It's an evolution.
What records could be caught by US ultra runners in this manner? Probably all of them except Yannis.
Sprintgeezer wrote:
Clubbed wrote:
Because the Hoka stunt was set up for one person as a time trial. Any really rich person could put on an exclusive Breaking 2 / Hoka type of stunt run and claim they set a record.
Such an exercise would be neither honorable nor fair to other athletes if the result was fraudulently misrepresented, but I can’t see how such a run being a time trial would affect anything adversely.
It seems you be okay with the concept of banning fake starts in the sprints. First to the finish line means nothing. The fastest person from the point a foot leaves the blocks to the finish would be the winner. Performance >>> rules.
Sprintgeezer wrote:
ages wrote:
There are lists for records for all types of performances. Club records, course records, age records, wearing suits records, backwards running records, US born only records. And on they go.
How about Semenya? Regardless of Xs, Ys, of combinations, she should be allowed to compete. But, "the sport" keeps making up rules (relay team socks must all match) and exceptions (drugs).
And all those records are legitimate if they comport with the criteria, and if they are in time-trial or other form.
Rules decided by some governing body like the IAAF are there to furtherand support the principles that they articulate. How does a time trial disrespect those principles?
The said it yourself. Comport with the criteria or forget about any record.
I think it's clear Fordyce's time is more impressive. He didn't have super-shoes and so many 35 years of tech advances. Even still, the legendary Walmsley only beat him by a few seconds.
Your “Full Disclosure” negates nearly everything you said. You seem to want to support the effort at all costs. Sounds like Hoka dropped the ball.
If they didn’t pay for your support I bet you’d have a different take. It’s kinda scummy. That why most real journalists do do this.