Tinmen held their own against the big dogs at Payton Jordan

Meh, he's a full-time athlete. Ritz and many others could have if not racing full xc and college track seasons around full academic course loads. He'd better be racing better than this 3+ months from now.

hardset nipples wrote:

Meh, he's a full-time athlete. Ritz and many others could have if not racing full xc and college track seasons around full academic course loads. He'd better be racing better than this 3+ months from now.

Not quite. He's a student at CU. Doesn't have to deal with the college competitive schedule, but has to be a student too, without the perks of being a CU athlete (not much grace from professors if he has to travel for competition). And wouldn't you expect him to be better in 3 months? Wouldn't that be the idea for all of the athletes?

zxcvzxcv wrote:

The list of Americans to have runner faster than Drew Hunter at 21 or younger is comprised of just Adam Goucher and Josh McDougal.

I no longer give bonus points for being young. Look at Jakob Ingebrigtsen.

I think Drew Hunter has a very, very bright future but if he's only running 13:20 at the end of this year (I doubt that's the case) he'll be a total non factor.

The fact McDougal is on the list shows it doesn't mean much.

Hunter has to start thinking "How can I be a sub 13:00 guy". You don't get there overnight.

The list people care about is this one:

1 12:53.60 AR Bernard Lagat USA 12 Dec 74 2 Herc Monaco 22 Jul 2011

2 12:55.53 Chris Solinsky USA 5 Dec 84 5 DNG Stockholm 6 Aug 2010

3 12:56.27 Dathan Ritzenhein USA 30 Dec 82 3 WK Zürich 28 Aug 2009

4 12:57.55 Paul Chelimo USA 27 Oct 90 6 VD Bruxelles 31 Aug 2018

5 12:58.21 Bob Kennedy USA 18 Aug 70 5 WK Zürich 14 Aug 1996

6 12:58.56 Matt Tegenkamp USA 19 Jan 82 7 VD Bruxelles 4 Sep 2009

7 12:58.90 Galen Rupp USA 8 May 86 3 Pre Eugene OR 2 Jun 2012

****

And the fact essentially no one hit the Olympic times shows why USATF needs to change its qualifying procedures.

5 of the 7 on that list are millennials. BOOM.

you older dudes are always hating on us millennials, but kids born in the 80's have been crushing it in every aspect.

Also as an aside, it's crazy to me that I beat Chris Solinsky a few times in high school and he ends up running 12:55 several times. I have MASSIVELY underachieved, but neither of us have competed in the Olympics

zxcvzxcv wrote:

21 year old best:

6 13:10.00 13:10.00 Adam Goucher 02.18.75 Nike Heusden, BEL 22-Jul-06

Josh McDougal was just under 22 when he ran 13:20.43:

42 13:20.43 13:20.43 Josh McDougal 06.01.85 Liberty University Walnut, CA 13-Apr-07

7 # 169 Drew Hunter Adidas/Tinma 13:21.18

(IAAF 5000 Metres 13:21.18 Palo Alto, CA (USA) 02 MAY 2019 1133) born September 5, 1997 (still 21)

Another 21 year old at 13:23.38:

49 13:23.38 13:23.38 Paul Geis 02.23.53 Helsinki, FIN 26-Jun-74

Prefontaine ran 13:22.8 when he was 21 (at the Oly Trials!)

I know Toolman likes to come on here and pump up his kid's good results (while ignoring the poor ones - Grace Ping, steeple guys, etc, etc, etc), but as for the 5k in the US, the list now looks something like this:

13:10 Emmanuel Bor

13:14 Hillary Boor

13:17 Erassa

13:21 MCgorty

13:21 Hunter

13:21 Jenkins

13:22 Tessema

13:29 Fisher

Keep in mind, Chelimo and Hill havent started and True says his focus is 5k

Eric Jenkins also ran 13:18 at the age of 21.

I suppose in millennials' vocabulary one = "several".

Examples:

"Chris Solinsky ran 12:55 several times"

"I've invested in my future several times"

"I have several skills that make me worthwhile to an employer"

I am 99% convinced that someone[s] in the tinman group comes on here to start a thread hyping him at least every other day. There is nothing in his experience or results to warrant the amount of praise he gets on here. The coaches who have far more impressive credentials don’t have people starting these constant threads. The threads don’t make think “Tinman is great”, they make me think, “Tinman and/or his group are all talk”. I also don’t like that he goes professionally by a weird nickname unrelated to his actual name, but I guess that’s ok. Point is: let the results do the talking.

Hunter is the first example we have of someone using Tinman-training for a long time (since early HS). Tinman repeatedly said in the US at any given year there are at least 50 Hunter's out there, kids with the same talent. But they get a random HS coach that either burns them out or does whatever with them.

There are no wonders in the world of running. He just started coaching most Tinman elites around 1 year ago, some a bit less some a bit more. His training system maximizes long-term development and peak performance, we will likely see more results after he had sufficient time (e.g. 5 years) to work with his athletes.

Actually... wrote:

Not quite. He's a student at CU. Doesn't have to deal with the college competitive schedule, but has to be a student too, without the perks of being a CU athlete (not much grace from professors if he has to travel for competition).

Not quite, he doesn't have to maintain a minimum course load and GPA for eligibility purposes. Hardly any pro meets during the semester, anyway.

hardset nipples wrote:

Actually... wrote:

Not quite. He's a student at CU. Doesn't have to deal with the college competitive schedule, but has to be a student too, without the perks of being a CU athlete (not much grace from professors if he has to travel for competition).

Not quite, he doesn't have to maintain a minimum course load and GPA for eligibility purposes. Hardly any pro meets during the semester, anyway.

Not quite, he has to maintain a GPA for his own purposes of getting an education, and doesn’t have an established tutor system. And same goes for any NCAA athlete competing after...right now.

Solinsky is Xennial/Oregon trail

Rupp is a Millenial

if you don't think those couple of years matter.....I present you : Chris Solinsky and Galen Rupp

Proty wrote:

I am 99% convinced that someone[s] in the tinman group comes on here to start a thread hyping him at least every other day. There is nothing in his experience or results to warrant the amount of praise he gets on here. The coaches who have far more impressive credentials don’t have people starting these constant threads. The threads don’t make think “Tinman is great”, they make me think, “Tinman and/or his group are all talk”. I also don’t like that he goes professionally by a weird nickname unrelated to his actual name, but I guess that’s ok. Point is: let the results do the talking.

Yes...I agree...and I'm a Tinman fan. Was actually coached by him for a while...when I was 51-52...and did well. But this constant praising is annoying and not necessary. What's more...it goes completely against Tom's nature. He hasn't got a marketing bone in his body...which is probably why he went decades without recognition. But like you said..."let the results do the talking."

Don’t forget wrote:

hardset nipples wrote:

Not quite, he doesn't have to maintain a minimum course load and GPA for eligibility purposes. Hardly any pro meets during the semester, anyway.

Not quite, he has to maintain a GPA for his own purposes of getting an education, and doesn’t have an established tutor system. And same goes for any NCAA athlete competing after...right now.

Well thanks for pointing out the obvious. Still not as burdensome as carrying 14+ hours and traveling most weekends and having training times set by someone else. With the Adidas money, it's nothing to hire a private tutor.

It's Parsons and his lackeys like Jordan Chavez.

I really don't think it's people in the group. Not just because Tinman probably communicated as much to them--that he wants the results to do the talking--but also because they spend enough time hyping the group on their website and on instagram. Posting on an anonymous message board, even one like LetsRun, isn't going to reach the people they actually want to reach.

Are there annoying Tinman fans on LetsRun? Absolutely, yes. Have Tinman athletes made remarkable improvements that are deserving of mention on these boards? Also absolutely, yes. Is it Tinman himself or people within Tinman Elite who do the mentioning? Almost certainly not.

As a Tinman fan myself, I guess I'll just make a plea to other Tinman fans to not spam and make the annoying "Tinman is so great!!!!" arguments all the time, regardless of the thread--i.e. don't make a Kipchoge thread about Tinman. I'm seriously wondering whether JS is the one making those posts to try to make Tinman seem as annoying as JS himself is, except that I think that's too subtle for him, and if he did try, everyone would be able to tell.

Anyway, congrats to Parsons, Gusman, and Hunter; bummer for Winter, Medina, and Thies; tepid congrats to Berriatua and Joseph; let's see how the rest of the season plays out.

statsonstats wrote:

kleenex for my sniffles wrote:

5 of the 7 on that list are millennials. BOOM.

you older dudes are always hating on us millennials, but kids born in the 80's have been crushing it in every aspect.

Also as an aside, it's crazy to me that I beat Chris Solinsky a few times in high school and he ends up running 12:55 several times. I have MASSIVELY underachieved, but neither of us have competed in the Olympics

I suppose in millennials' vocabulary one = "several".

Examples:

"Chris Solinsky ran 12:55 several times"

"I've invested in my future several times"

"I have several skills that make me worthwhile to an employer"

Sorry statsonstats. I meant 12:56.

Chris Solinsky’s 5000s in 2010

12:56.66, 6th in Oslo (June 4th)

13:08.11, 7th at Pre (July 3rd)

12:55.53, 5th in Stockholm (August 6th)

12:56.45, 3rd in Zurich (August 19th)

Don't be a d*ck, you seem like one. I have "several" reasons for thinking this.

I was at the meet and they announced it was Hunter's 5000 debut. An impressive debut for him.

Don’t forget wrote:

It was Hunter’s second-ever 5000, I believe. And he ran his last mile in 4:10. Who knows if he focuses on the 5000 this year instead of the 1500, but if he does, I could see him breaking 13:10, or running well in a tactical race. Not sure if I see him making the world team though—I’d put Fisher over him.