Thank you. This is the answer that I was looking for. I'll take a look.
Thank you. This is the answer that I was looking for. I'll take a look.
Cry cry cry wrote:
No it doesn't harm the sport to not allow crappy teams into D1 meets. It harms the D3 and D2 community if the good teams compete in those meets because then they are bypassing a meet in their own division against other teams that want competition. See how that argument can be carried out to the point of just eliminating the divisions? The best women want to compete against men so we should eliminate the gender divisions also. The NCAA basketball tournament should include only the best 64 teams from all divisions and let the other teams be done after conference. If a D3 or D2 runner is fast enough, switch divisions and stop crying.
I personally believe that athletics should not necessarily be tied to academic institutions. Club teams would be better in a lot of ways. Think about all of the academic scandals. There are plenty of great athletes in college who are not great students (and probably couldn't get into the school if they did not have the athletic ability that they have).
However, we're not taking issue with how the postseasons are setup between the divisions, simply how the regular season meets are run.
And, for clarification, we're not talking about 'crappy' teams. You need to work on your ability to comprehend ideas. We've defined the types of teams we're talking about with examples in this thread. If you are continuing to refer to any team that is not on the same performance level as Florida or Oregon as a 'crappy' team, you don't belong in this conversation. You either have an opinion that is too subjective, or you don't have a good understanding of what good performances are in collegiate track and field.
Jimjamesrunner wrote:
Thank you. This is the answer that I was looking for. I'll take a look.
Might be the answer you were looking for, but it is not the right answer.
You want to run in D1 meets, then you need to be at a D1 school. D1 college coaches absolutely do not want to cater to lower level college athletes. Bad for recruiting. Bad for them if the occasional lower level athlete beats some of their guys, etc. No upside in it at all for a D1 college.
If you go to a D2 or D3 school, you should not expect to run against D1 competition. Your wish and your frustration is unreasonable.
There are many Div. 1 coaches with a Div. 3 head. They have no clue what the upper echelon do and how they do it.
SomeoneWhoKnows wrote:
Jimjamesrunner wrote:
Thank you. This is the answer that I was looking for. I'll take a look.
Might be the answer you were looking for, but it is not the right answer.
You want to run in D1 meets, then you need to be at a D1 school. D1 college coaches absolutely do not want to cater to lower level college athletes. Bad for recruiting. Bad for them if the occasional lower level athlete beats some of their guys, etc. No upside in it at all for a D1 college.
If you go to a D2 or D3 school, you should not expect to run against D1 competition. Your wish and your frustration is unreasonable.
You may be entirely correct. If coaches are trying to keep their job security, I can’t blame them. I just have more respect for D1 coaches who will take on all-comers at their bigger meets (unless they’re a top D1 school and the competition is truly at a higher level).
You may not like the English language, but all teams that are not D1 are crappy by definition. The first dictionary definition for crappy is "substandard". There are standards that the NCAA has established for schools to be part of the NCAA Division 1. They have lesser standards for D3 and D2. Non-D1 teams are therefore, crappy.
D2 is dumb and D3 is slow wrote:
You may not like the English language, but all teams that are not D1 are crappy by definition. The first dictionary definition for crappy is "substandard". There are standards that the NCAA has established for schools to be part of the NCAA Division 1. They have lesser standards for D3 and D2. Non-D1 teams are therefore, crappy.
Is this the type of logical reasoning a NCAA Division I education fosters?
Why would any D1 team allow D2/D3 teams into their? Then you have things like this happen: https://northcentralcardinals.com/documents/2018/9/30//Louisville_Results.pdf Where NCC wipes out the field, and Kentucky is left rushing to delete the results from their team's website. It's just a bad look for these other D1 schools.
Yes D2 and D3 are crappy. I think everyone would agree that they are substandard. D1 requires athletes to go through the clearing house.
Here is your answer.... wrote:
The NCAA has some goofy rules about how to include non-D1 athletes in an invitational. Some meet directors just don't want to deal with it so they just don't. (Ask a meet director if you don't believe it.)
No D1 coaches are saying I don't want to let that kid in my meet because they are D2 and might win the event.
Yep, weird rules for minimum number of D1 opponents per season to maintain D1 varsity status. No AD cares about distance runners or who beats them at a given meet. There are no bonus funds given for beating D2 & D3 runners and scoring only matters relative to D1 opponents.
Jimjamesrunner wrote:
SomeoneWhoKnows wrote:
Might be the answer you were looking for, but it is not the right answer.
You want to run in D1 meets, then you need to be at a D1 school. D1 college coaches absolutely do not want to cater to lower level college athletes. Bad for recruiting. Bad for them if the occasional lower level athlete beats some of their guys, etc. No upside in it at all for a D1 college.
If you go to a D2 or D3 school, you should not expect to run against D1 competition. Your wish and your frustration is unreasonable.
You may be entirely correct. If coaches are trying to keep their job security, I can’t blame them. I just have more respect for D1 coaches who will take on all-comers at their bigger meets (unless they’re a top D1 school and the competition is truly at a higher level).
You want to tell us what your times are? Usually there is a reason someone runs D2 or D3.
I mean, as someone involved in the high school coaching game, there is "a reason someone runs D1" as well, and it's sometimes just to be able to say they run D1, or even more to the point, be able to tell people (while still in high school) they will run D1. I've known a lot of kids who later wash out of programs like North Dakota State, who spent their senior year making sure they always add the syllables"dee-wun" to all their conversations about running in college. Same with kids in other sports who go butt-level D1 despite not being up to par, even for a mid-major. Not to needle anyone in particular, but I bet a lot of the D1 guys on the results posted earlier (where D3 NCC beat everyone) were the exact kind of "dee-one" talkers I've seen come through the high schools I've coached in.
SomeoneWhoKnows wrote:
You want to tell us what your times are? Usually there is a reason someone runs D2 or D3.
I went "dee-won" because I wanted the advantage of greater academic rigor than I would've found at D2 & D3 schools. The D2 & D3 institutions that were within my reach in-state were liberal arts or technical schools. There's good reasons that D1 enjoys a higher status than the other divisions. And some folks do aspire behind their means.
What's wrong with NAIA? wrote:
I went "dee-won" because I wanted the advantage of greater academic rigor than I would've found at D2 & D3 schools. The D2 & D3 institutions that were within my reach in-state were liberal arts or technical schools. There's good reasons that D1 enjoys a higher status than the other divisions. And some folks do aspire behind their means.
Agreed. Given the choice between Tufts, MIT and Harvard, I'd choose DI too.
Harvard isn't D1? Most kids don't have that selection in-state.
wrong
As a former D3 Baby Nats-level participant, what often ended up happening is that we'd split squad it. Most of them would go to a D3-ish meet, hosted by a Haverford or Ursinius or something, and the top few who were chasing times would go to a meet at Bucknell, Penn State, that sort of thing.
I never blamed our Coach for doing it, nor did I blame the D1 schools for not wanting some goon scrubbing a 2:10 800 and wasting everyone's time.
If you choose to run in a crappy division, live with it or transfer. Are you guys trying to compete in the women’s division also? Can the D1 guys compete in some of those meets that state “D3 only”?
Right is right or correct wrote:
If you choose to run in a crappy division, live with it or transfer. Are you guys trying to compete in the women’s division also? Can the D1 guys compete in some of those meets that state “D3 only”?
I’m all for some intra-division regular season meets.
I just don’t understand how you’re willing to let in multiple D1 teams who are quite a bit worse than many non-D1 teams that you won’t let in. That means your simply letting them in because they have the ‘D1’ label, but they’re not actually good teams. Also, the schools are making money off of each team that enters the meet.
If there are a bunch of hoops that a D1 coach/meet director has to jump through to include non-D1s in their meets, that’s not their fault at all and I completely understand why some coaches exclude non-D1s. I’m extremely grateful for the D1 coaches who do.
The complexities of the logic of the rules are too complicated to explain here and too much for Non D1 guys to comprehend. To make a simple analogy, if we let every woman who can beat some of the guys, compete in the guys race, those guys getting beat should have the same right to compete in the women’s race. The NCAA established different divisions to create opportunities for leaders talented athletes to be able to compete. If you start breaking down thise barriers, you destroy the divisions and might as well eliminate them. I think there should be no crossing over for any sports.