"STABLE OF KENYAN-BORN STARS" -- Gaulty, this is racist

ayyyyyyy wrote:

Lotta personal attacks which is not surprising to find on LRC. You can show a pattern of racism when it comes to nationality. This deals with athletes who are non white. By saying where they were born, it's pretty clear they do it to separate out white and black athletes.

Ya'll are cruel talking about mental stability. That's not funny. It's mean. Engage in dialogue instead of trying to insult me. That's a reflection on you and your cowardice over the boards and how you aren't prepared for conversations like this. By harping on where people are born, LRC is being racist. There is no need for the way they do this other than the fact that they want to raise white athletes. It's silly.

Rebuttals to your arguments are not personal attacks. You made a severe attack of a person/people's character and people corrected you. Sorry, that's just what happens when you make ignorant comments. It's okay, you can learn from it and be better in the future.

pompous sixty nine wrote:

Your intention is to use racially charged language to coerce people into agreeing with you, or else they are racist. It's a tired shtick. Don't you know you're doing this? Please drop the morally superior pretense no one is falling for it except you.

My intention is to get the brojos to stop harping on where American athletes were born. What racially charged language am I using? Is it by saying that I think the practice is racist because they are doing this to black athletes. Even though we're talking about nationality, the practice can be racist. They are doing it to indicate who is white or good and who is non white and less than. There is no moral superiority. I do not see what value their phrasing brings to the athletics community. It's outdated language. Nobody needs to fall for anything. It's a tired shtick to continue to group American runners by where they were born like it means anything.

I wrote what I wrote but I can still talk to people. You don't have to be convinced. I don't have to be morally superior. I have a position based on something I think this website handles poorly. Explain to me how you don't think they handle it poorly instead of telling me I think I'm better than others or by name calling or insulting me. I'm better than nobody. I'm just trying to get by too. I have an opinion. It's okay to disagree. What's not okay is personal attacks. I'm not zoning in on anyone other than this website. I do not think they do due diligence when it comes to things like gender and race. My proposed solution is some staff diversity and/or some actual training. That's my position. Tell me all you want why you think I'm wrong and that this place nails those kinds of issues and nailed this one here. That's fine. Leave the keyboard insults. Ya'll are attacking mental health, name calling, etc. I think to type that out online to insult someone just makes you an insecure bully. I can talk about race and gender issues and am willing to engage with whoever. Some can try to be more respectful.

Back in the sixties, Arthur Lydiard's athletes were often referred to as his "stable". They were all of them white. So where is your claim that the term demeans black athletes? Your complaint is both precious and ignorant.

I disagree hard. By all means I am asking for conversation. Talking about mental health or hurling insults is not an appropriate response. I didn't call LRC unstable for printing the article. But I am being called unstable for articulating a critique of it. That doesn't add up. You can disagree and have dialogue without going after someone as an individual.

ayyyyyyy wrote:

My intention is to get the brojos to stop harping on where American athletes were born. What racially charged language am I using?

You constantly refer to the brojos and everyone else who disagrees with you as "white males" (which you probably are, ironically). This is racist and divisive language. It's not getting you anywhere. It's not making the world a better place. The fact that 95% of commenters respond the way they do is a sign that YOU are not communicating effectively to your audience.

How are you not getting this? The way you present your ideas is racially insensitive towards whites. Apologize now.

ayyyyyyy wrote:

just something to keep in mind before using this cliche wrote:

Rebuttals to your arguments are not personal attacks. You made a severe attack of a person/people's character and people corrected you. Sorry, that's just what happens when you make ignorant comments. It's okay, you can learn from it and be better in the future.

I disagree hard. By all means I am asking for conversation. Talking about mental health or hurling insults is not an appropriate response. I didn't call LRC unstable for printing the article. But I am being called unstable for articulating a critique of it. That doesn't add up. You can disagree and have dialogue without going after someone as an individual.

One guy made a joke about your mental health. Lots of people corrected you on the fact that horse metaphors are commonly used. But you didn't respond to any of them (probably, because you don't have a logical defense).

I routinely use horse/animal language to describe my college teammates and myself. More of a running thing than a race/ethnicity thing. If this terminology was just used to describe African athletes it probably signals an issue, but I feel its part of how we describe ourselves as runners.

At the start of a xc meet, "Whew! Look at that stampede!"

Talking with my coach after a race, "I just didn't have the giddy-up that last 200m today"

Describing my rival at another conference school "That boy is a thorough-bred!" (He's pretty yuge, very good at the 1500m)

When I'm on the taper and feeling too prideful "I'm a stallion, baby!"

My teammates to me, "Quit being a jacka**" (Okay, this ones probably not relevant)

Me before every race "I gotta pee like a racehorse!"

Then you got the turkey "trots", and teams run in "packs"....

Armstronglivs wrote:

Back in the sixties, Arthur Lydiard's athletes were often referred to as his "stable". They were all of them white. So where is your claim that the term demeans black athletes? Your complaint is both precious and ignorant.

This is almost bordering on real dialogue. I think the main difference is that I am not sure LRC has a history of using stable to refer to runners. Maybe I am wrong? They do have a history of singling out where black American athletes were born. By then adding in stable with those athletes, the whole thing didn't feel right to me. Why are the black athletes you always single out now in a stable when common racial tropes are black men being animals. Again, I think there is a ton of nuance to conversations like these. Implicit bias simply means that white folks see being white as good and act on those kinds of biases in every day life. There are tons of studies/tests that look at this (the race test here --

). White people often associate white people with positive attributes. I don't think LRC is malicious with their intent but they always cast black athletes as non American born and now used stable to group them. To me, I just don't feel like they use white people are born if a white person immigrates. Imagine them saying American born Sam Parsons? American born Alexi Pappas? So people in Germany and Greece know they aren't truly from that country, like that matters at all. It seems to me that this website uses American born to separate black athletes and that they don't use stable to describe white runners. Again, this isn't a condemnation of everything on here. This website provides really great content, overall. I think they fall short in areas like race and gender.

just something to keep in mind before using this cliche wrote:

ayyyyyyy wrote:

My intention is to get the brojos to stop harping on where American athletes were born. What racially charged language am I using?

You constantly refer to the brojos and everyone else who disagrees with you as "white males" (which you probably are, ironically). This is racist and divisive language. It's not getting you anywhere. It's not making the world a better place. The fact that 95% of commenters respond the way they do is a sign that YOU are not communicating effectively to your audience.

I mean, okay. I understand if this makes people mad/defensive but this place is 90+% white and male. That does mean something in the way that they cover and report on the sport. This place is a bubble for white dudes. The LRC staff is all white and male right? I don't think it's unreasonable to think that this creates a space where they might not be on point on some race + gender issues.

your demands for a dialogue are impossible when there is no self reflection on your part. you're arrogant, you need humbling and we're providing it for you.

you're a bigot wrote:

How are you not getting this? The way you present your ideas is racially insensitive towards whites. Apologize now.

This is closest to the truth. LRC is white + male and I challenged an idea that would sit better with people outside that group. When white folks have always controlled power in this country, I think we need to stay clear of what being racially insensitive towards whites looks like. Challenging our views is healthy.

just something to keep in mind before using this cliche wrote:

ayyyyyyy wrote:

I disagree hard. By all means I am asking for conversation. Talking about mental health or hurling insults is not an appropriate response. I didn't call LRC unstable for printing the article. But I am being called unstable for articulating a critique of it. That doesn't add up. You can disagree and have dialogue without going after someone as an individual.

One guy made a joke about your mental health. Lots of people corrected you on the fact that horse metaphors are commonly used. But you didn't respond to any of them (probably, because you don't have a logical defense).

I thought I did a good job of responding a couple posts back? I am fine with it being used as a common running term. What I still see is that term not used often on here and then used to group black men who are grouped as non American born. It can be a common phrase and still be used poorly in a situation like this.

ayyyyyyy wrote:

This is almost bordering on real dialogue. I think the main difference is that I am not sure LRC has a history of using stable to refer to runners. Maybe I am wrong?

There's plenty of examples if you actually look for them. Recently:

ayyyyyyy wrote:

you're a bigot wrote:

How are you not getting this? The way you present your ideas is racially insensitive towards whites. Apologize now.

This is closest to the truth. LRC is white + male and I challenged an idea that would sit better with people outside that group. When white folks have always controlled power in this country, I think we need to stay clear of what being racially insensitive towards whites looks like. Challenging our views is healthy.

Yet somehow your own views are above scrutiny. Clearly you're enlightened past anything anyone on this website has yet fathomed.

If you want something you had better be willing to offer reciprocity. The animosity you feel directed toward you is being earned. You're a fool to think your diatribe will do anything but harden views. Let people be how they want to be, please, that's what our country is about.

Just do this: get a person who knows nothing about XC or track and have them watch the USATF XC race this weekend. Explain that the top 6 guys are from Kenya. Then instantly watch their interest in the race go to zero along with the confusion it generates. Maybe telling them that these same Kenyans got citizenship from "serving" in the Army. If they ask what heroic job they did in the Army, explain that they pretty much trained on our taxpayer dollars and pushed some paper around a desk. You'll have an instant fan for life!!!

take a timeout wrote:

ayyyyyyy wrote:

This is closest to the truth. LRC is white + male and I challenged an idea that would sit better with people outside that group. When white folks have always controlled power in this country, I think we need to stay clear of what being racially insensitive towards whites looks like. Challenging our views is healthy.

Yet somehow your own views are above scrutiny. Clearly you're enlightened past anything anyone on this website has yet fathomed.

If you want something you had better be willing to offer reciprocity. The animosity you feel directed toward you is being earned. You're a fool to think your diatribe will do anything but harden views. Let people be how they want to be, please, that's what our country is about.

I have never said that my views are above scrutiny. Everyone should believe what they want. Insults still don't have a place here. I don't think that the way this website talks about race/gender is helpful when they have a platform and choose to relay information in the way that they do. It's fine if ya'll wanna jump down my throat for that but this place is not representative of the real world. It's okay to call attention to that.

Typical work from douchenozzle british-born racist, Jonathan Gault.

Alabama BS wrote:

Just do this: get a person who knows nothing about XC or track and have them watch the USATF XC race this weekend. Explain that the top 6 guys are from Kenya. Then instantly watch their interest in the race go to zero along with the confusion it generates. Maybe telling them that these same Kenyans got citizenship from "serving" in the Army. If they ask what heroic job they did in the Army, explain that they pretty much trained on our taxpayer dollars and pushed some paper around a desk. You'll have an instant fan for life!!!

Remember when this website forgot that Meb was an American winner of the Boston Marathon? I don't think it's wrong that people could get behind a good story of immigration and hard work. I think this place does a disservice by pointing out that the ADP guys are not born here instead of celebrating them as runners. It leads to people getting mad of them making teams and representing the US. Meb is one of the best Steward's of the sport. People know his name and his story. He is a great American distance runner. Period.