Advice on developing speed for extreme slow twitch athlete

how much slow twitch was salazar wrote:

Galloway was 96% slow twitch wrote:

.

Any one know what was Salazar slow to fast twitch ratio? From what I understand, he could barely run under 60 seconds all out for 400m, yet he ran a 7:43 3000m and a 13:11 5000m.

Back in the day the word was that Salazar's best 400 was 57. No doubt that was in a workout because he sure didn't race 400s, and maybe he could have squeezed out a few more seconds if he had. But he had less basic speed than any peers he raced against and almost surely 90% or more slow twitch.

I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve with this athlete?

There is a lot of good advice here, but dependent on what you are trying to do.

Are you trying to make him faster over 5K or faster over a 100 m? Or 400 m, or the last 400 m of a 5k?

That will decide what strategy to follow.

First forget the slow twitch fast twitch story, unless you have done a muscle core sample.

Next get him out of the weight room. 17 years old and grinding out weights - the worst place for a young athlete who is not on the football or wrestling team. Leads to posing. And injury. And lack of focus. Good Runners run.

Running fast is about great, efficient technique, and power to weight. Plus running fast. You have to have a fast mentality.

When coaching sprinters the conversation is always about picking them up and putting them down quickly. You sound like you are trying to have it both ways. Your sessions seem to be distance speed endurance sessions. No complaints I suspect, but I still can't work out what you are trying to do, because you then talk about hill work.

Until you work it all out, I'd get him out of the gym. Make sure he isn't carrying excess weight. Make sure his technique is good. Too many distance gym guys want to have great arms and abs rather than explosiveness. But is that what you are trying to achieve?

Get him doing some fartlek work. Vary the sprint distance. Make sure his sprint technique is good and not just bowling ball stuff. If he goes to the gym, try to find leaper type exercises. Forget squats. They are too slow.

Speed can be built. He's not going to make the 4 X 100 team for the USA, but them few will.

And as an aside, try to coach what you have, rather than what you'd like him to be. In the end if grinding is his strength, then make him a great grinder. Teach him how to put pressure on people in races. Teach him how to race under pressure and dig in when its tough.

And as someone else said, if he doesn't feel hill work, then he's not doing it right. The purpose of hill work is to feel it.

you can recruit fast twitch stem cells and change the fast:slow ratio. dna can be manipulated real time as well.

sadly, the whole world pretty much thought that was set, the ratio, but the whole world was into public domain, bs bro science. that falsehood goes out the window, when they actually do muscle biopsy, rather than sit and the chair and make up those bogus theories.

you're going to have to change completely your habits and training methods completely.

you want to work on speed and power obviously, but not strength training just pushing heavy,

you want fast motions. boom. start with light weights, but fast motions, and work up the weight to heavier still with fast motions. don't do any distance training because you'll stop recruiting fast twitch stem cells to adapt.

study dorian yates and his methods, not for body building but his advice on creating explosive power.

with that said, it's an uphill battle, i'm seeing someone going from 30 seconds to 25-26 seconds in the 200, type thing

without doing any crazy PEDs...

In addition to most of what posters above have indicated, resistance band exercises have especially helped with my stride efficiency (I'm not particularly slow twitch but used to have a pretty average speed threshold for 100/200, like 12.x/25.x) as it helped my glutes fire properly and I could put more power into the ground. Speaking of which, you may want to throw your runner to the wolves and have him do a workout with some sprinters, 150s as some have suggested. The problem I find with distance runners is they always just say something along the lines of "pick your feet up" or "get up on your toes." This advice is pretty terrible, as sprinters generally focus less on how much of their foot they put down with each stride, and more on putting power into the ground. Sled pulls, pushes, and delayed starts (either with a physical push or a rope) will help with this. I'll link to Jarrion Lawson's workout Wednesday video from a year or two ago (yes, I know there are many questions surrounding him but he is innocent until proven guilty) to show what I mean.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9xU7aLbodo&frags=pl%2Cwn

crumpet above has a lot of old school notions. not the worst advice. practical, but in the end, not the best.

weights can be done a million ways, one leg presses with speed and power are total game changers for anyone that never developed their legs through other sports....

true if you go to the weight room and ape what you see, then crumpet is right, it's not going to work out so well.

once you get that 25 second 200m, then you can get onto doing the distance training again, but remember to do the speed work with the quality, so you keep that speed.

I was going to suggest down-hill sprints and then saw two posters had already recommended them. They helped me immensely when I was in the 18 to 21 year old range. I'm not sure it is the best but we had a large well maintained grassy area where I was able to do mine in bare feet. The slope was probably about 3%. Lots of 200's to 300's .

The female runner I was referring to played soccer from age 12 to 20. Eight years of sprint and explosiveness training hadn´t helped her one bit.

as an older runner who is facing muscle loss, I would strongly advise against dropping the weights. if the kid likes to lift and is doing it with proper form/safely there is nothing wrong with the lifting and it will help a lot later in life. he most likely does't have the speed/talent to be a world beater at any distance, so i'd say keep the balance.

he needs time more than anything else to see what he can do at distance running. he'll get a sniff at how good he can be if he keeps at it consistently for another 10 years.

btw, the advice on working on speed year round is a good one

Shufflers unite wrote:

no such ... wrote:

No such person as extra slow twitch. There are people a lot slower than 30/63 200/400. Sprinting fast is like hitting a baseball, ballet/point and playing the violin. It's neuromuscular coordination. To do well, the earlier one starts, the better. One can improve as a sprinter. It is difficult to try to improve one's 5000m time and 200m time simultaneously.

The female runner I was referring to played soccer from age 12 to 20. Eight years of sprint and explosiveness training hadn´t helped her one bit.

What happens to females from age 12 to 20? Think about it. Some females peak as athletes in middle school.

you are probably super tight and inflexible. And just because you can deadlift "heavy" doesn't mean you you translate that to running. I would focus on more core stability and flexibility. Also, do more tempo/C.V type training. You are not "slow-twitch", you are just slower than your potential.

There are a ton of great ideas here and I also agree that basic foot speed is something that is challenging to develop (a lot of work for a little bit of improvement). Two big questions I like to ask when this situation is presented: Does he move well? Is he powerful/strong enough to deadlift twice his bodyweight?

I coached an athlete with similar times. He had trouble breaking 30 seconds for 200m in 10th grade of high school. Over the next two years he was able to get his deadlift to 2.5 times his bodyweight by lifting an average of twice per week. He also was able to get really smooth running fast by using progressive repitions , he used this an average of twice per week too. His senoir year he was able to split 53h in FAT timed 4x400 relays. His 3200m time went from 10:08 to 9:40, and 1600m from 4:40 to 4:28. He was also running a range 40 to 60 miles per week. A lot of work for mediocre results, but it did work.

I have started implementing this with all the athletes I work with. It is a 24 to 28 week repition progression. It has worked very well, especially when you are basing the majority of the workouts around that 5K to 20K pace. I use this after conditioning runs before a thrshold type workout. I have found the biggest thing is this just makes you move well and be comfortable running fast.

Here is a sample layout of what I am talking about:

This is for a person with a goal mile of 5:15 to 5:20.

Week / Reps / Pace / Rest

1. 6x200 @ 40-42 w 2 minutes

2 .6x200 @ 40-42 w 2 minutes

3. 8x200 @ 40-42 w 2 minutes

4. 8x200 @ 40-42 w 2 minutes

5. 10x200 @ 40-42 w 2 minutes

6. 10x200 @ 40-42 w 2 minutes

7. 8x300 @ 60-62 w 3 minutes

8. 8x300 @ 60-62 w 3 minutes

9. 10x300 @ 60-62 w 3 minutes

10. 10x300 @ 60-62 w 3 minutes

11. 10x300 @ 58-60 w 4 minutes

12. 10x300 @ 58-60 w 4 minutes

13. 8x300 @ 58-60 w 4 minutes

14. 8x300 @ 58-60 w 4 minutes

15. 10x200 @ 38-40 w 3 minutes

16. 10x200 @ 38-40 w 3 minutes

17. 8x200 @ 36-38 w 4 minutes

18. 8x200 @ 36-38 w 4 minutes

19. 8x200 @ 36-38 w 4 minutes

20. 8x200 @ 36-38 w 4 minutes

21. 6x200 @ 34-36 w 5 minutes

22. 6x200 @ 34-36 w 5 minutes

23. 6x200 @ 34-36 w 5 minutes

24. 6x200 @ 34-36 w 5 minutes

25. 4x200 @ 32-34 w 6 minutes

26. 4x200 @ 32-34 w 6 minutes

27. 4x200 @ 32-34 w 6 minutes

28. 4x200 @ 32-34 w 6 minutes

Also, weight to power ratio is the big factor. If you have access to a knowledable strength coach you can get a lot of gains with athleticism. I have found that athletes should be able to deadlift 2 to 2.5 their bodyweight to maximize their god given speed. Other auxillary strength training is benificial too. For example: hurdle drills, 10 chin ups, 40 push ups, ect...

Not that this is an essential to running fast, but it doesn't hurt as long as you aren't gaining a significant amount of weight.

longjack wrote:

you can recruit fast twitch stem cells and change the fast:slow ratio. dna can be manipulated real time as well.

No, you can't

You can easily run 6:30 pace but 5k race pace is 5:30?

Only the last couple of weeks are doing anything that a person couldn't achieve by just background miles.

The above is a good post. Also one guy said that you must work on speed all year long. That is true. In addition it

is a good idea to talk and also if possible to bring a good sprint coach to practice occasionally. The hardest thing

for anyone to do is to improve speed. The next hardest is endurance. Adding strength for most people is the easiest.

There are men who can deadlift over 1000 pounds. Why can they not beat Usain Bolt in 100?

Lifting is an entirely different thing. Lydiard only used weights if there were no hills available. He also pushed

only lifting with the upper body. Skipping rope is overlooked as a speed builder. I would have this athlete do

"Speed Development" at least one day per week. (Please find out what speed development IS NOT before you

go forward.) Work on relaxation, rhythm, classical running form, acceleration, and on the mental aspects of sprinting.

I would also have them do running drills daily as part of the warm up. Strides can be done several days per week

as a way to maintain speed. (Strides done the way I suppose are not speed development.)

I'm also not seeing 8 x 400/3 x 1600 type stuff anywhere in your talk. A coach cannot have kids do long runs and sprints exclusively, if the intention is to develop an all-around racer. He/she will be missing many spark plugs. It is true that you can overdo this stuff but it should be done at least twice in 9 days during the season.

Plus is he a consistent runner? I like Rojo's plan of running frequently and not using a watch. Relaxed running will produce speed. Do not suppose that you can be a better runner without using your mind to produce results.

Keeth meant to say that "Lydiard pushed lifting with the LOWER BODY ONLY." Not upper body only as I originally said!

how much slow twitch was salazar wrote:

Any one know what was Salazar slow to fast twitch ratio?

98% slow twitch

A 17 year old kid can deadlift over twice is body weight for 4 sets of 5 has no shortage of strength. His PBs aren't jaw dropping, but if he's only been running 1.5yrs then it shows a decent capability for running. But being so slow while showing good strength and mechanics is weird. A kid who can deadlift 270lbs consistently and run a 17min flat 5km should be able to jog a sub-30 min 200m.

The kid might not understand how to contract his muscles explosively and simple move his limps quickly. Big lifts in the weight room tend to be a slower and controlled movement so their recruitment of muscle fibers is similar. The lifts use all muscle fibers but they aren't contracted in an explosive manner. Start teaching him some plyometrics. Box jumps, bounding for distance, skipping for height...he needs to learn how to use his innate strength to push into the ground hard over a short period of time while reacting to the next jump to keep momentum going. Jumping also gives an immediate feedback for his well he's doing.

It is easier for an athlete feel how far they have jumped than how fast they're running. A weird psychology trait of running is that we judge our speed relative to our environment rather than what our body is doing. So he might not understand what feedback to look for when he's using an explosive moment to sprint uphill. However, our brains notice the small differences in height very well. He'll know immediately when he's doing well in skips for height b/c it'll take him longer to fall back down. He'll understand that greater air time means the movement is correct and explosive. As a coach, you will visibly be able to see gradual and small improvements in height or jump distance; opposed to speed which is hard to notice for small improvements.

Lots of good suggestions. I somewhat resemble your runner. No leg speed, but strong as hell (at least back in the day). Really fast stuff just trashed my legs - that's me, not necessarily your runner. I suggest lots of long Tempo, volume 4x400 with short recovery, repeat miles with short recovery, etc. Play to the athlete's strength.

my HS PRs were 2:03, 4:20, 9:13, 15:36 XC, and 24:59 - 5 mile certified road course.

Ultimately, my best mile was 4:11, but I also ran 5:18 for my last 2K in a 10K on the track - 28:31. Meaning I had a limit of overall speed, but could almost equal that mile speed (if you want to call it that) at the end of a long race.