Big LOLZ!!! wrote:
Ha ha, nice video - couldn't help but notice the beautiful heal striking by the famed barefoot runner! How exactly did that work?!
Note: Their entrance into the stadium was down hill. Everyone runs on their heels running down a hill.
True but not here. Watch at about 9 and half minutes. Mid race. Slowed down, perfect example of beautiful non stretched heal striking on the flat.
Looking at their Olympic times it seems unlikely Kipchoge would live with Bikila.
Kipchoge 2016: 2:08:44
Bikila 1964: 2:12:11
Very different types of races. In 1964, Bikila simply ran his best time at a steady pace to win the race. Granted the conditions were pretty harsh so I'll allow for a 4 minute improvement assuming ideal weather. Kipchoge's race in 2016 was a tactical one with all kinds of surges in the race. That means he wasn't racing for time. Besides, I'd argue that varying pace is a harder way to run a marathon than a steady pace. Also keep in mind that the improvement from 2:12 to 2:08 is not linear by any means. With these times, we are deep in exponential territory. A 2:08 marathoner is in a different class from a 2:12 marathoner. There isn't even a comparison between 2:08 and 2:01. There's no amount of technology, nutrition or training methodology that would bridge that gap IMO. It's all raw talent.
SDSU Aztec wrote:
Vaporfly Asterisk wrote:
Abebe Bikila won the 1960 Olympic Marathon Barefooted in 2:15:16 and came back four years later to win again breaking the World Record in 2:12:11.
54 years later, wearing the controversial spring loaded Nike Vaporflys, Eliud Kipchoge breaks the World Record running 2:01:39. 10 mins 32 seconds faster than Bikila's time but separated by a huge chasm in terms of the both the available technology, and knowledge in terms of nutrition and training methodology of the time.
Splitting the time difference between Bikila's landmark first barefoot Olympic triumph and Kipchoge's epic World Record, if the two had been born at the same time and reach their peaks in the late 1980s, who would win, wearing what footwear, and in what time?
Posters on LR constantly talk about nutrition, but I ran during the '70s and never, ever, did I hear about about appropriate nutrition for runners. I had the opportunity to meet and run with John Walker and he said that besides drinking beer, his diet consisted of eating whatever was put in front of him.
It's hard to compare Bikila and Kipchoge. Bikila dominated, but that was before guys that could be world-class on the track ran the marathon.
This talk about huge improvements in nutrition is BS. I have a handbook in sports nutrition from 1970 and 98% of the content could have been written today. They knew all the macro and micro nutrients and carbo loading was known in the 1960s.
Kipchoge without any doubt. He's been running since 2004 till now. Tell me where such longevity has been witnessed by any marathoner
Very much agreed. I think people grossly underestimate the incentive factor when discussing the reason for time improvements in marathon events. The rewards for becoming a professional marathoner are much much higher today than they were in the 60's so the competitors come from ever deeper talent pools. Talent comes first. Everything else is just a form of polishing up so to speak. You can never replicate a Kipchoge, a Bekele, a Rudisha or a Bolt with any amount of training or nutrition. You just have to find the one in a million who has the right combination of genes.
Arontbt wrote:
Very much agreed. I think people grossly underestimate the incentive factor when discussing the reason for time improvements in marathon events. The rewards for becoming a professional marathoner are much much higher today than they were in the 60's so the competitors come from ever deeper talent pools. Talent comes first. Everything else is just a form of polishing up so to speak. You can never replicate a Kipchoge, a Bekele, a Rudisha or a Bolt with any amount of training or nutrition. You just have to find the one in a million who has the right combination of genes.
Lol, Bikila triumphing in Rome, running barefoot, less than 25 years after Mussolini had occupied Addis Ababa, was one of the great poetic moments of the 20th century.
"It took an entire Italian army to conquer Ethiopia, but only one Ethiopian soldier to conquer Rome"
He was already a personal bodyguard to the Emperor Haile Selassie, who Mussolini had deposed. Safe to say he was given plenty of incentives to win in Rome.
Just ask Lesisa Desisa or Tagese
William Peyton wrote:
Easy answer: Bikila!!!
No one was in his class in 1960 or 1964
Kipchoge has many close rivals.
While this was 3 years ago, let’s see how well it holds up.
Bikila was 12-2 with 2 DNFs in a 12 year career (24-36)
Kipchoge is 14-2 with 2 other performances which no one on earth would have matched on the day in a 10+ year career (27-37+)
5 of Bikilas races were contained to ethiopia only competition and i think in general it is more than safe to say eliud has a deeper talent pool against him.
Despite this, no, eliud does not have close rivals but he does have a more successful career
Dan Williams wrote:
Oh, James007 wrote:
"the available technology, and knowledge in terms of nutrition and training methodology of the time."
I really wish people would take the time to read the original post.
Bikila in a landslide!
I really do not know how you can compare Kipchoge to Bikila.
In Bikila's day there was almost nothing written about running.
You only ran a marathon if you had a chance to win.
Now everyone and their sister runs the marathon.
You tryin'a tellme Bikila was not a better natural talent?
What chu' smokiin?
*In 1958 the world record was 2:15.17 by Sergei Popov of USSR
*October 1960 the world record was broken by the barefooted Ethiopian Abebe Bikila in 2:15:16.2
*More than 2 years later the WR was unofficially broken by Toru Terasawa of Japan
by less than a second @ 2:15:15.8 February 1963.
*Then Leonard "Buddy" Edelen of the USA broke the record with a 2:14:28.0 during June 1963.
*Basil Heatly of UK held the record with 2:13:55 in June 1964
*Abebe Bikila won for the second time in the Olympics with a world record of 2:12:00 in September 1964
*It took the world almost 2 years to break that record by 11 seconds with Morio Shigetnatsu
of Japan getting a 2:12:00 during June of 1965.
*Finally Derek Clayton of Australia started getting solo marathon wins and had a 2:09:36 in December of 1967.
This does not prove your point. Instead it just shows how poor competition was at the time. East African running began with keino and bikila. Now they hold 97 of the 100 fastest marathon times ever. And you’re talking about him breaking the marks of the British like it’s the greatest sporting achievement ever
All things considered, the guys being at their prime, no trampoline shoes and throwing in Bekele:
Bikila
Bekele
and a distant third
Kipchoge
PS. There is no Kipchoge you know without Nike shady power.
masterofdisaster wrote:
All things considered, the guys being at their prime, no trampoline shoes and throwing in Bekele:
Bikila
Bekele
and a distant third
Kipchoge
PS. There is no Kipchoge you know without Nike shady power.
substantiate
masterofdisaster wrote:
All things considered, the guys being at their prime, no trampoline shoes and throwing in Bekele:
Bikila
Bekele
and a distant third
Kipchoge
PS. There is no Kipchoge you know without Nike shady power.
you act like he wasn't world champion with early 2000s shoes
he could comfortably hold his own in converse