It depends what you all define as speed and what she defines as speed. Speed to you guys may be 400's at 1500 m pace while speed to her is 200's at 800m pace. Also, do not think that you can't run fast on the track based off of pure strength. For example, Ed Ches ran 3:49 off of 120 mile weeks and base training. In Fact, most college kids throw down fast indoor times off of all Threshold work, MP, tempo pace, and strides.
alsal wrote:
she annoys me.
YES. YES. YES.
We both ran in the same conference in College and I don’t remember her. She was never one of the top Women. I had to go back and look at old results to see if she really ran in the conference.
The Hanson’s have made her famous. She makes it sound like she would of been better had she of been elsewhere. That is ridiculous and totally disrespectful.
I bet she never finishes top 3 in another major marathon.
reed wrote:
hey rojo, just keep in mind that the more threads and articles about trail/ultras races you have on the site, the more interest that will get from the site's visitors (which include elite runners like Desi).
and when more western elites start doing ultras, more sponsors will show up. and who follows that $$$? the kenyans!
so what I'm saying is...you should learn more about ultras and start posting articles and results to major ultra and trail races.
THIS. Great point reed. Eventually all of the trash talk will make sense when olympic marathoners don't transition to immediate success in ultras. Can it happen? Sure. Will it be as instantaneous as some believe? Not a chance.
reed wrote:
hey rojo, just keep in mind that the more threads and articles about trail/ultras races you have on the site, the more interest that will get from the site's visitors (which include elite runners like Desi).
and when more western elites start doing ultras, more sponsors will show up. and who follows that $$$? the kenyans!
so what I'm saying is...you should learn more about ultras and start posting articles and results to major ultra and trail races.
I feel the same way about Joggling. Having to juggle during a race adds a key component of skill that the "sport" of running otherwise lacks. Joggling is really up and coming what with Kapral being featured in the Fairfield Inn commercial.
Please Brojos, we want more Joggling articles. What could Kichoge run for a marathon while juggling 3 objects? I think he'd be in the 2:45-2:45:30 range.
I don’t Desi understands that you’re not gonna run your 5k pace at the end of a marathon. I hope she does well but considering her approach I don’t think she will be top 5.
PaloAlto Rox wrote:
The Hanson’s have made her famous. She makes it sound like she would of been better had she of been elsewhere. That is ridiculous and totally disrespectful.
Funny, but I didn't get that sense at all. I'd love to see what she said that you think showed disrespect.
PS "would have been better" "had she have been elsewhere"
When you look at what Hanson runners do they probably average a “speed” workout once every 2-3 weeks. Now a speed workout for then is more like Ks at 5-10k pace not quarters at mile pace on a track. Really the point is to make Marathon pace feel easier. It has little physical benefit for a marathon though.
So if she was hammering lots of VO2 workouts in place of the long tempo workouts the Hanson’s did I seriously doubt she will near the front.
Not how I read it wrote:
PS "would have been better" "had she have been elsewhere"
*facepalm*
3hr-marathoner wrote:
Ackley wrote:
I read the article.
Is Linden that delusional to think that the only reason that she does not beat top Africans is that she can't drop a big negative split?
Am I missing something? If you are with the leaders at halfway and they negative split and you don't that's pretty clearly why you lost.
You are missing something. You lost not because you decided not to run a negative split, you lost because you lacked some combination of the ability/conditioning to run a negative split off the particular pace of the race. Not that hard to figure out.
Put another way, Kipchoge can run a 1:01:01 first half and then run faster for the second half. I don't think anyone else currently has the combination of the ability/conditioning to do this.
Linden is not in the same class of Edna Kiplagat, the runner referenced in the article who dropped her in the 2017 Boston marathon with a negative split.
Ackley wrote:
You lost not because you decided not to run a negative split, you lost because you lacked some combination of the ability/conditioning to run a negative split off the particular pace of the race. Not that hard to figure out.
I'm confused. I thought Linden said exactly what you are saying she didn't say. Am I missing something?
"the way I got destroyed the last couple miles [in 2017], I felt like I hadn’t done anything to close that gap..."
"I just couldn’t respond at all...."
"I think you’re seeing people close marathons faster than ever before and if I want to be competitive...I need to have some turnover."
“I think that kind of takes the pressure off having to make it this 26.2-from-the-gun race. I think I can maybe sit in a lot longer, not feel like I need to push the pace from the beginning. "
I haven't seen all of her races, but the one's I have, she always just ran her own race. I don't recall any pushing the early pace or even really sitting-in episodes. I recall a lot of Desi doing Desi pace.
She has no intention of responding to any move made by Keitany. She will sit back and try to chase down Huddle who will respond to the Keitany move.
Reading comprehension 101 wrote:
Ackley wrote:
You lost not because you decided not to run a negative split, you lost because you lacked some combination of the ability/conditioning to run a negative split off the particular pace of the race. Not that hard to figure out.
I'm confused. I thought Linden said exactly what you are saying she didn't say. Am I missing something?
"the way I got destroyed the last couple miles [in 2017], I felt like I hadn’t done anything to close that gap..."
"I just couldn’t respond at all...."
"I think you’re seeing people close marathons faster than ever before and if I want to be competitive...I need to have some turnover."
I believe that the issues being expressed with regards to Linden's comments do not relate to the text of the comments that you are quoting, but rather the implied reason behind them. She is saying that she is getting destroyed in the last few miles, that her problem is that she lacks speed / turnover, and thus she has been doing more speedwork. Others, however, are making the argument that the reason she is getting destroyed in the last few miles has nothing to do with a lack of speed, but rather a lack of endurance, either due to poor conditioning or just limited ability. Thus improving her 5K speed will not help her -- because she has to work so hard to stay with the leaders for much of the race, she can't really tap into that speed the way the fresher runners can.
Excellent article. (I have nothing snarky to add)
>“I don’t know how to convince people that it’s a meaningful win. I guess I would take results over opinions.”
What a weird world. Des, no need to "convince people". You do more with what you have been given than any runner I know. And now the guts to try something new to get even better, wow. You are an amazing role model in so many ways. And btw, you have the coolest win in Boston history. Good enough?
Is there possible a financial aspect to the decision?
I don't know how the business relationship would work between Linden/Hansens but presumably they got a % of earnings? Considering she has won a 'home' marathon major, her earning potential presumably goes up.
It would seem to make sense to look for a coaching/management relationship that allows her to keep a bigger % of her earning for the rest of her career. This is doubly so as after so many years, the potential for improvement under the Hansens is not that high.
Desi was once one of the most loved runners on letsrun. She was the tough as nails blue collar badass who sucked in college and grinded her way to the top over many years. But then she made a mistake that would prove to be fatal to her letsrun popularity... she won a major marathon! Just months later, she is has transformed into an arrogant, know-it-all, holier than thou, dumb jock who has no clue what is best for her. She is now only one more big performance away from pages of doping allegations. This will complete her grotesque metamorphosis from the female Brian Sell to the female Galen Rupp. Stay classy, letsrunners!
Please don’t ever compare Desiree Linden to Brian Sell.
Brian was the ultimate blue collar runner and represented what we all go through on a daily basis nothing but him and the road. Desiree tries to find things that appeal to the hobby joggers. From running with music to treadmill running to making sure her GPS ends on even mileage. All of this stuff would never fly in the blue collar world of Brian Sell.
Brian always sent the message that he didn’t care what everyone else thought about him. Desiree sends the exact opposite message.
Brian Sell was Letsrun. Desiree Linden is RunnersWorld.
Perhaps this will help wrote:
Reading comprehension 101 wrote:
I'm confused. I thought Linden said exactly what you are saying she didn't say. Am I missing something?
"the way I got destroyed the last couple miles [in 2017], I felt like I hadn’t done anything to close that gap..."
"I just couldn’t respond at all...."
"I think you’re seeing people close marathons faster than ever before and if I want to be competitive...I need to have some turnover."
I believe that the issues being expressed with regards to Linden's comments do not relate to the text of the comments that you are quoting, but rather the implied reason behind them. She is saying that she is getting destroyed in the last few miles, that her problem is that she lacks speed / turnover, and thus she has been doing more speedwork. Others, however, are making the argument that the reason she is getting destroyed in the last few miles has nothing to do with a lack of speed, but rather a lack of endurance, either due to poor conditioning or just limited ability. Thus improving her 5K speed will not help her -- because she has to work so hard to stay with the leaders for much of the race, she can't really tap into that speed the way the fresher runners can.
You expressed the idea that I could not make clearly. The reason that Desi can not keep stay with top Africans is lack of endurance more than lack of speed.
Blue collar hero wrote:
Brian Sell was Letsrun. Desiree Linden is RunnersWorld.
Brian Sell was (and is) in fact above both. Don't ever disrespect him again by aligning him with this sh!t website of trust funds, bitterness, and basement dwelling nancies. Linden may be RW yet she (along with Rupp and co.) is very much a favorite topic of dissection on this insidious message board.