Has Kipchoge surpassed Bekele as GOAT?

If you want to play this game then you need to incorporate HOW Bekele won his Olympic and WC golds and over WHOM.

2003:

- Watch the Paris 10k.... nuff said

More recently:

2008:

- Bekele runs OR 12:57 over Kipchoge 13:02 absolutely dismantling everyone over the last kilometer

- Bekele runs 27:01 (aready owns Championship record..) over Sihine 27:02 (26:39 PR) and Micah Kogo 27:04 (26:35 PR)

2012:

- Farah runs 13:41 ftw (Levins won NCAAs in 13:40...)

- Farah runs 27:30 narrowly beating Rupp and the post-prime Bekele brothers.

2016:

- Farah wins in 13:03 over Paul Chelimo who set a PB of 13:03 in that race— an Olympic final... ? —- clearly not a field on-par with the prime Bekele dominance era

- Farah wins in 27:05 after tripping himself. No one cares to capitalize or try anything risky. Snoozefest.

2017:

- Farah loses the 5,000 in spectacular fashion

- Farah wins the 10,000 in the most exciting, and respectable race of his career, likely costing him the 5,000 gold.

So either a “win is a win,” ( which it isn’t...) or we should spend less time cherry-picking the totality of circumstances surrounding these victories.

No one can deny Mo Farah’s range. Clearly the best top-end (HM) range of any mile specialist we’ve seen. Too bad Mo never focused on his true calling. That decision had nothing to do with jogging to 5/10k gold over scrubs because the 1500m fields were VERY stout. Nope not at all.

... Need I continue?

Range matters wrote:

JNathletics wrote:

But Kipchoge lost in the Olympics twice to Bekele 2004 and 2008 in which Bekele won the 10K before the 5k each year. Bekele also set the OR 12:57.82 in his 2008 win, one of the many records he holds. along with 3 Olympic golds. Kipchoge now has one.

18 WC golds - Bekele, 2 WC golds Kipchoge.

It's not even close.

Bekele is the GOAT.

Kipchoge is superior in range of medals across disciplines and distances. Bekele has no medals in championship road running, which is why his claim to GOAT fails.

You are clearly missing the fact that Bekele is also the GOAT xc runner, won Berlin, and ran 2:03:03. He has been successful at the highest level at every discipline. The irony of the his post is astonishing- bekele us one of the best cross-discipline talents.

JNathletics wrote:

Koo wrote:

My track memory of Kipchoge was beating two GOATS with one kick -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMZdOdriRdk&t=122s

But Kipchoge lost in the Olympics twice to Bekele 2004 and 2008 in which Bekele won the 10K before the 5k each year. Bekele also set the OR 12:57.82 in his 2008 win, one of the many records he holds. along with 3 Olympic golds. Kipchoge now has one.

18 WC golds - Bekele, 2 WC golds Kipchoge.

It's not even close.

Bekele is the GOAT.

Yup.

Can we gonna ignore the 26:49... 13:52/12:57... that Bekele threw down over Haile before Kipchoge won the 5k?

The 5000m WR improved from 12'58 (before Geb) to 12'39 by (Geb), some 2.44%.

If the marathon was to be improved 2.44% from Kimetto's time, that would be 1h59'57. Although this comparison equates Aouita's time with that of Kimetto, it gives an idea of the giant leap in the era of Haile Gebreselassie.

You are a fool wrote:

Range matters wrote:

Kipchoge is superior in range of medals across disciplines and distances. Bekele has no medals in championship road running, which is why his claim to GOAT fails.

You are clearly missing the fact that Bekele is also the GOAT xc runner, won Berlin, and ran 2:03:03. He has been successful at the highest level at every discipline. The irony of the his post is astonishing- bekele us one of the best cross-discipline talents.

I didn’t point that out because it’s not relevant to my argument. Please read it again. I said that Bekele has a hole in his resume - an absence of ANY road championship medals - that excludes him from the GOAT discussion. His excellence in XC is irrelevant because he still has an incomplete resume, whereas Kipchoge has world medals from every surface.

It is all about opinions - everyone have his own - how do you evaluate OG, WC, WR, quality of win - 5K, 10K, Mary, HM, XC etc. Good way to kill time - that's all.

I am the GOAT as I hold the world records in 22m, 26m, 31m, 38m, 128m etc... Who give a damn, haha

Range matters wrote:

You are a fool wrote:

You are clearly missing the fact that Bekele is also the GOAT xc runner, won Berlin, and ran 2:03:03. He has been successful at the highest level at every discipline. The irony of the his post is astonishing- bekele us one of the best cross-discipline talents.

I didn’t point that out because it’s not relevant to my argument. Please read it again. I said that Bekele has a hole in his resume - an absence of ANY road championship medals - that excludes him from the GOAT discussion. His excellence in XC is irrelevant because he still has an incomplete resume, whereas Kipchoge has world medals from every surface.

If you´re saying that his XC excellence is irrelevant then you´re a complete retard. Nobody has been so dominant in any distance running discipline as Kenny. In one WC race he lost a shoe, stopped to put it on and still won.

TxMaster wrote:

It is all about opinions - everyone have his own - how do you evaluate OG, WC, WR, quality of win - 5K, 10K, Mary, HM, XC etc. Good way to kill time - that's all.

I am the GOAT as I hold the world records in 22m, 26m, 31m, 38m, 128m etc... Who give a damn, haha

You’re here, so you give a damn. This is a discussion about GOAT for a set of disciplines. Excellence across those disciplines should logically be the determining factor.

automorphic wrote:

Not the marathon GOAT. The GOAT GOAT. The GOAT of GOATs.

In other words, is 2:01:39 better than 12:37? Is it better than 26:17? I would suggest yes. But it’s hard to know for sure.

*I don’t trust the calculators on small margins like this. They’re great for a general idea, but not for splitting hairs, and they’re reactive to a game-changing performance like this one.

When you consider the fact that Kip also had a ton of success on the track and Bekele has had very little success in the marathon I think the obvious answer is yes. Absolutely.

Lol. I'm sure this thread pissed off a lot of people on this site (banana man for one). But it's the truth.

To be honest, your arguments as presented above aren't that convincing, however I do happen to think Bekele is the GOAT. I like to bring up Farah because I do think he's done enough to be in the conversation at least.

Farah's 2016 Olympic times aren't so far removed from Bekele's 2008 times for instance, certainly not enough to say one was so much better than the other, when at the end of the day, they both did what the needed to do to win.

For me, it is the XC dominance of Bekele along with the 2:03:03 "out of no where" that convinces me.

Range matters wrote:

You are a fool wrote:

You are clearly missing the fact that Bekele is also the GOAT xc runner, won Berlin, and ran 2:03:03. He has been successful at the highest level at every discipline. The irony of the his post is astonishing- bekele us one of the best cross-discipline talents.

I didn’t point that out because it’s not relevant to my argument. Please read it again. I said that Bekele has a hole in his resume - an absence of ANY road championship medals - that excludes him from the GOAT discussion. His excellence in XC is irrelevant because he still has an incomplete resume, whereas Kipchoge has world medals from every surface.

so if range matters more, then let's pull up geb. Geb is definitely better - medals at every discipline (and more of them), and world records

an argument could be made for geb vs Bekele

kipchoge isn't even in the picture.

well,, wrote:

If you´re saying that his XC excellence is irrelevant then you´re a complete retard.

Dang. I’d much rather be an incomplete retard.

And yes it’s irrelevant because it doesn’t address my argument at all. With no championship road medals, Bekele is disqualified from being GOAT. Saying he had success in 2/3 disciplines doesn’t address the argument that the GOAT must have success in 3/3.

well,, wrote:

Nobody has been so dominant in any distance running discipline as Kenny.

Kipchoge. El G. Etc, etc.

well,, wrote:

In one WC race he lost a shoe, stopped to put it on and still won.

Kipchoge’s shoe fell apart during Berlin. 2:04:00 PR and the W.

+1 Farah was a born 1500m runner through and through.

epicTCK wrote:

Range matters wrote:

I didn’t point that out because it’s not relevant to my argument. Please read it again. I said that Bekele has a hole in his resume - an absence of ANY road championship medals - that excludes him from the GOAT discussion. His excellence in XC is irrelevant because he still has an incomplete resume, whereas Kipchoge has world medals from every surface.

so if range matters more, then let's pull up geb. Geb is definitely better - medals at every discipline (and more of them), and world records

an argument could be made for geb vs Bekele

kipchoge isn't even in the picture.

I agree. Geb is clearly the GOAT.

Kipchoge is a better contender than Bekele.

doot doot wrote:

JNathletics wrote:

But Kipchoge lost in the Olympics twice to Bekele 2004 and 2008 in which Bekele won the 10K before the 5k each year. Bekele also set the OR 12:57.82 in his 2008 win, one of the many records he holds. along with 3 Olympic golds. Kipchoge now has one.

18 WC golds - Bekele, 2 WC golds Kipchoge.

It's not even close.

Bekele is the GOAT.

Yup.

Can we gonna ignore the 26:49... 13:52/12:57... that Bekele threw down over Haile before Kipchoge won the 5k?

Doesn't matter. He took down El. G too.

Range matters wrote:

well,, wrote:

If you´re saying that his XC excellence is irrelevant then you´re a complete retard.

Dang. I’d much rather be an incomplete retard.

And yes it’s irrelevant because it doesn’t address my argument at all. With no championship road medals, Bekele is disqualified from being GOAT. Saying he had success in 2/3 disciplines doesn’t address the argument that the GOAT must have success in 3/3.

well,, wrote:

Nobody has been so dominant in any distance running discipline as Kenny.

Kipchoge. El G. Etc, etc.

well,, wrote:

In one WC race he lost a shoe, stopped to put it on and still won.

Kipchoge’s shoe fell apart during Berlin. 2:04:00 PR and the W.

he has had success in all 3! 2:03:03 #3 all time! what are you on?

you know you can just hit up IAAF.org and see Bekele's stats right? clearly you haven't seen his stats if you still think he's not in the goat conversation (him vs geb)

A big aspect for proclaiming Kip the GOAT that no one has mentioned is CONSISTENCY. He has been winning marathons and running fast times in the marathon since 2013. He lost one marathon and it took a WR to beat him (only his second marathon and he PRed). Why are people impressed that Bekele got the distance right like 1 or two times when Kipchoge has shown consistent success that is absolutely unparalleled at the hardest distance (and now the most competitive) in athletics.

Nope wrote:

No

/thread

epicTCK wrote:

Range matters wrote:

Dang. I’d much rather be an incomplete retard.

And yes it’s irrelevant because it doesn’t address my argument at all. With no championship road medals, Bekele is disqualified from being GOAT. Saying he had success in 2/3 disciplines doesn’t address the argument that the GOAT must have success in 3/3.

Kipchoge. El G. Etc, etc.

Kipchoge’s shoe fell apart during Berlin. 2:04:00 PR and the W.

he has had success in all 3! 2:03:03 #3 all time! what are you on?

you know you can just hit up IAAF.org and see Bekele's stats right? clearly you haven't seen his stats if you still think he's not in the goat conversation (him vs geb)

“With no championship road medals”

Geb and Kipchoge have world medals from every discipline.