You're missing one of the key ingredients to running fast...rest! Three weeks and no rest days??? Make sure you take one every two weeks as let that good work sink in and let the body adapt. So my advice is go chill this Saturday & enjoy it! Good luck
Mon - 8m easy+ strides
Tue - 6x1m off 60sec (5:28/5:24/5:22/5:17/5:12/5:08) [10m total]
Wed - 11 steady
Thu - 4 AM ... 7 PM
Fri - 4 AM ... 8x250m hill + 5x200m track (31/30/30/29/29) PM [12m total]
Sat - 5 AM ... 5 PM
Sun - 14m avg 6’17 [7:45 cut down to 5:22]
Total - 75m
Good luck Moby, aka Boots on the MF Ground.
Moby wrote:
Mon - 8m easy+ strides
Tue - 6x1m off 60sec (5:28/5:24/5:22/5:17/5:12/5:08) [10m total]
Wed - 11 steady
Thu - 4 AM ... 7 PM
Fri - 4 AM ... 8x250m hill + 5x200m track (31/30/30/29/29) PM [12m total]
Sat - 5 AM ... 5 PM
Sun - 14m avg 6’17 [7:45 cut down to 5:22]
Total - 75m
Not sure that 1 meter repeats are helpful for 1500 runners. You probably need more work in the 5-10m range.
update: I'll race a 5miler in 6 weeks. Then a 5k on Thanksgiving.
Mon - OFF
Tue - 10mile progression (not enough time for a formal workout) - 57 mins with last 4 in 5:37/5:29/5:25/5:17 {10}
Wed - 11 steady
Thu - 4 AM ... 7 PM
Fri - 4 AM ... 20 min tempo (avg 5:19) + 7x250m hill PM [14m total]
Sat - 5 AM ... 5 PM with 4x200 in 29
Sun - 14m avg 6’17 [7:45 cut down to 5:22]
Total: 70mi
Mon - 4 AM ... 7x200 in 30.xx + WU/CD PM [10mi total]
Tue - 4m Tempo [5:27/5:25/5:19/5:11] + 2x800 w/ 90sec rest [2:16/2:15] {10mi total}
Wed - 11m in 75:00
Thu - 4mi easy AM ... 7mi easy PM [11mi]
Fri - AM - 4m ... PM - 10x1k off 60sec [3:05 avg] {15mi total}
Sat - 7mi easy
Sun - 14mi progressive
Total: 78mi
Slow down your easy runs. Get in touch with your inner wejo.
wejonomics wrote:
Slow down your easy runs. Get in touch with your inner wejo.
Does WeJo have a sub-3:55/sub-4:15 one mile PB? Easy jogging is Marathon training.
last 2 weeks:
Mon - 4 AM ... 6 PM + easy 150m strides (10mi)
Tue - 1x1000 (2:51) with 30mins tempo afterwards (just over 5.5mi -- 5:26 pace) [10.5mi]
Wed - 11.5mi steady
Thu - 8mi easy
Fri - AM - 4mi ... PM - 8x250m hill {11mi total}
Sat - 7mi easy
Sun - 15mi progressive
Total: 73mi
Mon - 4 AM ... 7 PM [11mi total]
Tue - Fartlek -- 26mins (5:22 avg) + 6x200m avg 30 {11mi total}
Wed - 11m
Thu - 4mi easy AM ... 7mi easy PM [11mi]
Fri - AM - 2mi/2k/1k/2x800 [9:53 + 5:59 + 2:55 + 2:17 + 2:14] ... PM - 4mi easy {13mi total}
Sat - 7mi easy
Sun - 14mi progressive
Total: 78mi
Last 3 weeks:
Mon -4 AM ... 7 PM + strides
Tue - 6x1m off 60sec (5:20/5:18/5:13/5:11/5:07/5:02) [11m total]
Wed - 11 steady
Thu - 4 AM ... 7 PM
Fri - 4 AM ... 20min tempo (5:17 avg) + 7x250m hill PM [13m total]
Sat - 5 AM ... 5 PM
Sun - 15m progressive
Total - 82m
Mon - 4 AM ... 6 PM + easy strides (10mi)
Tue - 4 AM ... 4mi tempo (21:03) + 6x200m (31--29) [13mi]
Wed - 11mi steady
Thu - 4 AM ... 6 PM
Fri - AM - 4mi ... PM - 2k, mile, 1k, 2x800 [5:55 + 4:49 + 2:53 + 2:16 + 2:12] PM {11mi total}
Sat - 7mi easy
Sun - 14mi progressive
Total: 76mi
Mon - 4 AM ... 7 PM [11mi total]
Tue - 6x1000m [3:07/3:05/3:05/3:05/3:03/3:01] + 4x400m in 65 {9mi total}
Wed - 11m
Thu - 4mi easy AM ... 7mi easy + 6x200m PM [11mi]
Fri - 5mi easy
Sat - 5k Race in 15:01 (ran alone after 800m) AM ... 4 easy PM [12mi]
Sun - 13mi easy
Total: 72mi
I love how this OP just ignores the trademark negative comments of LRC. Keep it up Moby.
What kind of rest are you taking on those interval workouts? At this point in the year I would say either slow them down, or ditch them entirely in favor of tempos/cruise intervals. If your body needs some hard intervals once a week to feel normal (some people do and its ok) I would at least do them up a hill. What's your perceived effort level while you're doing these?
I disagree with the above (respectfully). For me, the best long-term training I ever did involved typical interval workouts (high intensity with only moderate rest) year round, but just lowered the frequency. You've only done 1 workout that I would consider interval work, but it will keep your anaerobic system tuned up and give you a good head start mentally and physically when Spring comes and you're doing them twice a week.
Other than that, I like everything I've seen as far as running goes, I just think you should rest more and use the energy to bring your tempo times down. That's getting pretty specific though, and it's clear you're getting more fit.
Keep it up.
steeplechump wrote:
What kind of rest are you taking on those interval workouts? At this point in the year I would say either slow them down, or ditch them entirely in favor of tempos/cruise intervals. If your body needs some hard intervals once a week to feel normal (some people do and its ok) I would at least do them up a hill. What's your perceived effort level while you're doing these?
All the 1000s/miles repeat workouts are under control usually with very short rest (1min). Same thing any time I do 200s or hills - they are controlled and done with plenty of rest so that I’m not over doing it.
Those two ladder workouts I did were a little more agressive with a little more rest. Trying to keep those infrequent since it is the fall, and primarily focus on the tempo’s, hills and cruise intervals. But I wanted to throw a couple in —- 1) to prep a little bit for some fall road races .... and 2) because I’m definitely more of an interval guy than a long tempo and mileage guy. I find it helps keep me engaged in the training.
Next race will be a 5miler on Thanksgiving. I’ll see where I am at after that. I want to keep the mileage up until then. Try and stay in the 80s — that’d be at the upper limit of anything I’ve done for an extended block of training.
Also just an open question for anyone who may be reading —- what do you think the best plan of attack is for the winter? More road races and continue to get strong? No races at all? Mini indoor season? My utlimate goal for the near future is running fast in the spring and early summer for some outdoor races. I’ll have access to an indoor track, but not sure if it’s worth it to try and get somewhat sharp for some races or put all my eggs in the basket for outdoors
Moby wrote:
Next race will be a 5miler on Thanksgiving. I’ll see where I am at after that. I want to keep the mileage up until then. Try and stay in the 80s — that’d be at the upper limit of anything I’ve done for an extended block of training.
Also just an open question for anyone who may be reading —- what do you think the best plan of attack is for the winter? More road races and continue to get strong? No races at all? Mini indoor season? My utlimate goal for the near future is running fast in the spring and early summer for some outdoor races. I’ll have access to an indoor track, but not sure if it’s worth it to try and get somewhat sharp for some races or put all my eggs in the basket for outdoors
I think you should definitely hit up some indoor races with good competition. It would likely be a good springboard into outdoor and would help you see your progress on the track, both in terms of times and race tactics. Keeping road races in there as well wouldn't be a bad idea, but I suspect you'll find faster competition in some college indoor races, too. Maybe mix both of them.
This is really impressive solo training. What are your goal races for the rest of fall? I am a bit surprised at the lack of 200 and 400 workouts with > 8 reps, but that makes sense if you're doing cross country / road racing training now. What was your rest for this 6x1000 + 4x400 workout? With your 15:01 alone on the roads I'm guessing you did like 30 sec standing or a 200 m jog rest. My PR on the track is 15:05 and I could do 8x1000 at 3:00 but with 2:30 standing rest (regret that now). Tue - 6x1000m [3:07/3:05/3:05/3:05/3:03/3:01] + 4x400m in 65 {9mi total} What are your approximate 200 and 400 PRs? What is your plan for this winter/spring to get comfortable at 61 sec / 400 m pace?
steeplechump wrote:
What kind of rest are you taking on those interval workouts? At this point in the year I would say either slow them down, or ditch them entirely in favor of tempos/cruise intervals. If your body needs some hard intervals once a week to feel normal (some people do and its ok) I would at least do them up a hill. What's your perceived effort level while you're doing these?
Does ... wrote:
wejonomics wrote:
Slow down your easy runs. Get in touch with your inner wejo.
Does WeJo have a sub-3:55/sub-4:15 one mile PB? Easy jogging is Marathon training.
No he doesn't but when he ran 28:06, he was surely very to close to be able to run 4:15 for the mile 3 times back to back with no rest.
I just saw this post where you answered most of my questions - it's very impressive that those workouts are under control, and I believe you with that 15:01. I think you should certainly do some 1500/mile races indoors - for one thing, I believe it is better to stay sharp with shorter, faster workouts for almost two seasons if your ultimate goal requires you to be sharp. It makes sense if that is what you had success with in college, although I see the point another poster made about something of a slowdown in your progression (that being said, how many college runners pr all four years?). Hopefully the renewed focus that comes with being alone in grad school will help. Also as I'm sure you know indoor tracks are arguably faster than outdoor tracks if you can get in the right race - what is your indoor 1500 pr? If you put up sub 3:50 indoors that could take off pressure for your outdoor season. An indoor time would at least be a good progress benchmark, and could help you get into faster races outdoors.
Moby wrote:
steeplechump wrote:
What kind of rest are you taking on those interval workouts? At this point in the year I would say either slow them down, or ditch them entirely in favor of tempos/cruise intervals. If your body needs some hard intervals once a week to feel normal (some people do and its ok) I would at least do them up a hill. What's your perceived effort level while you're doing these?
All the 1000s/miles repeat workouts are under control usually with very short rest (1min). Same thing any time I do 200s or hills - they are controlled and done with plenty of rest so that I’m not over doing it.
Those two ladder workouts I did were a little more agressive with a little more rest. Trying to keep those infrequent since it is the fall, and primarily focus on the tempo’s, hills and cruise intervals. But I wanted to throw a couple in —- 1) to prep a little bit for some fall road races .... and 2) because I’m definitely more of an interval guy than a long tempo and mileage guy. I find it helps keep me engaged in the training.
Next race will be a 5miler on Thanksgiving. I’ll see where I am at after that. I want to keep the mileage up until then. Try and stay in the 80s — that’d be at the upper limit of anything I’ve done for an extended block of training.
Also just an open question for anyone who may be reading —- what do you think the best plan of attack is for the winter? More road races and continue to get strong? No races at all? Mini indoor season? My utlimate goal for the near future is running fast in the spring and early summer for some outdoor races. I’ll have access to an indoor track, but not sure if it’s worth it to try and get somewhat sharp for some races or put all my eggs in the basket for outdoors
Long intervals, short intervals, strides, steady state running, tempo runs, hills, progressive long run... it seems as if you were trying to cram everything in one week every week. Most times you have up to 5 hard or at least moderate intensity days in a week.
Pay attention to adequate recovery and be sure not to get into a state of continous fatigue. Then you are fresh enough for some real good workouts, too. At the moment you are not doing anything that makes me thinking of a sub 4min miler. You are training more like a planless 70 min half-marathon guy.
I understand that it is time for winter training now, if you don't participate in indoor races. But you are not doing any kind of base building either...
Most relevant info wrote:
Please tell us you're a sub-51 AND sub-1:52 400/800 man. If you are, maybe. If you were a four year college runner and did not break 1:52 by age 22, no. This won't happen.
I never broke 1:54high and I was a sub4 guy, but thanks for you useless input.
To the OP, I'll also try to follow this thread and perhaps even chime in with a piece of advice or two. All the best.