Bad Wigins wrote:
I wonder suddenly how, with the Europeans always so hell-bent on conquering and destroying each other, little principalities like Monaco and Liechtenstein are able to exist independently.
They, too, Wiggo, are on EPO, and thus can fend off their would-be conquerors.
Once Fast Daniel Komen could no longer beat slow Daniel Komen, he was done.
DK EPO wrote:
> What was the real reason Daniel Komen quit in his prime?
1) He didn't quit in his prime.
2) The introduction of a test for epo cut his "prime" short.
#1 is correct.
#2 is ridiculously incorrect.
His times dropped off markedly by the summer of 98. He was nowhere the runner then that he had been, and it seems motivation was the real issue. His times declined each year and he finally stopped racing. His career end had nothing to do with testing of any sort at all.
Komen became scared of dropping dead from PED use. He also didn't like the fact that even though he was a super responder to EPO, other guys like El G and Geb were also top responders and were able to beat him at certain distances.
here we are at the proof that medals are better than times. we look back at who at the time was running so fast no one thought anyone could be as good. now we look back and all we have is times and we ask why not more? Rupp Farah Meb..... never the fastest but are walking away with medals and we will remember those. ...... 10 years from now ? Why did solinsky and hall quit in their prime?
No way can you run a 3:46 mile on only 54 second 400 m speed. Where did you get that idea from?
Kev2 wrote:
No way can you run a 3:46 mile on only 54 second 400 m speed. Where did you get that idea from?
check all his races, he couldnt kick for nothing
3:46 is 56 per 400
and no matter what race he did he was 57-58 last lap no matter what
where as geb and kb ran 52 lows
i am down to see something diff, so if you can find a race and show that komen had some foot speed faster that 13 for 100m lets see it!
m!ndweak wrote:
Kev2 wrote:
No way can you run a 3:46 mile on only 54 second 400 m speed. Where did you get that idea from?
check all his races, he couldnt kick for nothing
3:46 is 56 per 400
and no matter what race he did he was 57-58 last lap no matter what
where as geb and kb ran 52 lows
i am down to see something diff, so if you can find a race and show that komen had some foot speed faster that 13 for 100m lets see it!
Komen was a super diesel.
Star wrote:
We didn't get to see the potential of someone who ran 12:39 for 5000m?
I think we did.
He had 12:11 potential if he had only done what everybody else was doing and hit the EPO.
"Well I have more brains then I know what to do with..."
You could always channel some of the unused brainpower into punctuation and spelling.
LacyOvettScottPrefontaineJones wrote:
"Well I have more brains then I know what to do with..."
You could always channel some of the unused brainpower into punctuation and spelling.
I was literally thinking of donating some to you. Oh I wish we saw more of Komen. I wonder how fast he could run now. I'd like to see him and geb race today. 2 pre bekele titans batling to the end.
Was on the track in Teddyton to watch the single most incredible running feat ever (other than the 720 3k). Workout was 1600-1200-800-400...Komen ran 351, 251, 151, 51...couple minutes recovery in between. He was clearly doping at the time. He was probably a 12;55, 7:28 guy clean, but 12:39 and 7:20 were the juice talking. In Italy you can still just walk into a pharmacy and buy it off the shelf!
m!ndweak wrote:
he was a 13:31.10 clean guy, and prob a 8:00 3km......very very very similar to our greatest running nerd, rupp
he then hops on the sauce full throttle and takes 30+ seconds off. to about the PR of rupp again. here is where things change. komen was able to squeeze more from himself than most can on EPO, why? cause he wasnt mindweak he was hungry as balz for that cash money! he runs super fast but isnt selected for the 96 olympics. so then after that he goes on a streak of destruction. trained to hard, chip on his shoulder, too much EPO, bad on his health, add those together and you get a heart that has red lined too many times. he still sauces after that, but has lost drive to train that hard, to push that hard to run after that white mans clock.
i believe that around 2002 he was off the sauce and not training as hard, and thought "why am i doing this, its not fun anymore"
then out of shape, no drive he runs times he ran before he ever tried EPO and became rich
there you have it, a guy with prob no better than 54 400m speed was able to run what he did
just cause EPO can make you drop times with the same effort given, it doesnt mean it stops hurting
I'm open to the possibility that anyone was on EPO but I don't buy the he just hops on the "sauce" and drops 30 seconds and then decides to unhop off the sauce and gets bad.
If the "sauce" is worth 30 seconds for 5k do you think everyone running 13:00 is on it? Or do you think Bob Kennedy could drop a 12:28 with the sauce.
So if he hopped on the sauce and got off what was Geb doing? If he's clean, he could run 12:15 on sauce. If he's dirty how did he keep running so well for so long or Bekele?
This is the best article I've read on Komen:
http://running.competitor.com/2014/06/features/what-ever-happened-to-daniel-komen_27486Just found it via Google but is what I had heard from everyone who knows him. That he was from a super poor part of Kenya and the fame got to him a bit and he didn't love training and maybe burned it too hot.
That article probably explains it best. Komen, more so than other Kenyan runners, was in it for the $ and fame. Once he achieved, those, he lost interest. It could be he never even liked the sport, only what it could do for him materially. In the late 90s he began running the mile, again probably for more $. Although almost certainly on EPO (he was part of Kim McDonald's group) he was still a fantastic athlete. He had only one weakness in that he lacked a kick.
Im very positive that all the sub 13 in the 90s were EPO aided.
Remember, the WR went from 13:00.41 in 1982 to 12:56.96 in 1994. Only 3.5 seconds in 12 years.
But from That year to 1997...boom. 12:39 by Komen. 17 seconds in 3 years and a half.
Coincidences: European Agents in Kenya/Ethiopia, EPO usage was rampant in TdF peloton, absence of proper testing methods, etc..
wejo wrote:
If the "sauce" is worth 30 seconds for 5k do you think everyone running 13:00 is on it? Or do you think Bob Kennedy could drop a 12:28 with the sauce.
.
You mean the same Bob Kennedy that trained in the Kim MacDonald group?
As part of the group, I imagine Kennedy was also on EPO.
Komen is a good example that times trump medals. People get medals almost every year, but Komen was a once in a generation talent, and will be remembered for years to come for his incredible speed.
At this moment S. McG. is a slightly similar story. Of course she has medals falling out of her closet probably, but she han't an individual NCAA title at the moment, and yet her times make her a superstar. Her NCAA all-time rankings, as a freshman, are astonishing.
Nope. Times do not trump records. Only times that stand up over decades like Komen's 3k record. And lets be real, times that stand up that long, including the 1,500 and mile records and pretty all the women's records, are drug-aided. Does setting the 1,500 world record make Sydney Maree a track immortal? No. He held the record for all of a week. And, lets be real, you can literally live off an Olympic gold medal the rest of your life. Billy Mills is still giving motivational speeches because of his Olympic win more than 50 years ago. Do you think Yobes Ondieki (first man to break 27 minutes in the 10K) can say that? Do you think Lasse Viren is a track legend because of his 5k world record or his 4 Olympic gold medals?
Coach Cookie wrote:
This is what unlimited EPO use looks like. See if you can guess the year the test for EPO came out...
See if you can guess when he started taking EPO.
1995