John Walker would of been able to do this in his prime, very similar to how he trained.
John Walker would of been able to do this in his prime, very similar to how he trained.
Lydiard Cerutty wrote:
John Walker would of been able to do this in his prime, very similar to how he trained.
Yeah, that's another good example.
Maybe El G or another top miler? Maybe Webb at the height of his career? Maybe Farah or Bekele?
Jim Peters who lowered the marathon WR from 2:25 to 2:17 basically ran all of his workouts at marathon pace or faster. Not quite sub-5, but much more than 70 miles per week of sub 5:20.
It's funny that what you asked is almost exactly what Michael Musyoki said his training regimen was. This was many years ago (when I read Runner's World, so that is *many* years ago!) and there was a "how they train" column. When they asked Musyoki, my recollection is that he reportedly said "My training just consists of running an hour a day." However, it came out that he typically ran about about 12 miles in that hour -> 5 minute pace. I can't remember whether he trained 6 or 7 days a week but, even if only 6 days -> ~70 miles per week.
It's kind of struck me that this sort of training, fast, continuous, distance runs, was once sort of common and has mostly vanished today. But there were people who got good results with it.
Dave Bedford used to run "140-180mpw at 6-4:50m/m"
To achieve this feat, one must complete 7 runs, 10 miles in 50 minutes each.
Eliud Kipchoge - a well known distance runner from Kenya - can certainly do this.
This particular runner has a demonstrated that he can run for approximately 2 hours at a pace of around 4:36 per mile. In order to achieve this, he typically trains at 120 to 140 miles per week at paces varying from close to 4:00 minute/mile pace to in excess of 6:00 minute/mile pace.
However, running 50 minutes per day at approximately 24 seconds per mile slower than what he's able to run for 2 hours, and running 50 to 70 miles per week less than his normal weekly mileage is certainly achievable.
Debate over. Please move on.
HRE wrote:
It's kind of struck me that this sort of training, fast, continuous, distance runs, was once sort of common and has mostly vanished today. But there were people who got good results with it.
True, back than they didn't really run "tempo runs". They just ran hard when they felt like it. This is a missing puzzle piece people forget about, and why runners back than often only did "one workout" a week back than. For example, if you look at the training log of Bill Rodgers he didn't do a lot of workouts. It was more unstructured and more free flowing. If you feel good, run hard. If you feel sore, run easy. More runners should train more like this, all this science jargon has made a simple task, too complicated. Keep it simple.
Kipchoge could easily do this. To make it easier, I would suggest he should double everyday. All he would have to do is run run 5 miles in 25 minutes in the morning and again in the evening. Repeat 60 times and he has done it.
5 min miles is bread and butter for mid distance greats.
probably steve scott and john walker did 5 min miles every day they trained together, and probably stretches way under 5 on a regular basis.
at age 40 + jack foster of new zealand did this kind of pace a lot of the time if you moved it from the sheep pasture to the flats 6 days a week for 70 miles. then there was the long bike ride on the weekend.
jack foster also had the world record or best for 20 miles or something like that...........
Sure. I will give you some probable examples. Malmo may want to weight in on this as he was world class and always ran over 70 mpw. I am sure he would know whether this is possible and/or who could have done it.
John Walker
Ron Clarke
Mark Nenow
Sydney Maree
Ron Tabb
El Guerrouj
...
There are probably 3000 others who might have been able to.
Sand Dunes wrote:
HRE wrote:
It's kind of struck me that this sort of training, fast, continuous, distance runs, was once sort of common and has mostly vanished today. But there were people who got good results with it.
True, back than they didn't really run "tempo runs". They just ran hard when they felt like it. This is a missing puzzle piece people forget about, and why runners back than often only did "one workout" a week back than. For example, if you look at the training log of Bill Rodgers he didn't do a lot of workouts. It was more unstructured and more free flowing. If you feel good, run hard. If you feel sore, run easy. More runners should train more like this, all this science jargon has made a simple task, too complicated. Keep it simple.
I did this for a 140 mile week I just ran at my top end easy pace everyday twice a day out and back down the trail summer 2017. My easy pace started getting faster halfway through that week and I was feeling fitter, I only did it once but I remember it fondly. What happened is I couldn't move my legs any faster than marathon pace.
Lydiard Cerutty wrote:
John Walker would of been able to do this in his prime, very similar to how he trained.
yes, this was his interpretation of the "lydiard method", which was nothing to do with long slow distance.
i was in the auckland domain doing a run and spotted dixon and walker flowing across the terrain, they didn't look so fast until you focused on the background. i decided to follow and maybe join along, being capable of sub 5 min miles for a couple of miles or so at that point, after probably putting in 440 mile chase pace, the boys disappeared into the distance... so who knows long they were going at sub 440 pace...? so much for the lydiard long slow method.
HRE wrote:
Lydiard Cerutty wrote:
John Walker would of been able to do this in his prime, very similar to how he trained.
Yeah, that's another good example.
Steve Scott is another, his long run of 10 miles was in 50 minutes
HRE wrote:
all in the vdot wrote:
someone with an 80 vdot at distance has a true recovery pace of 6:30 and a MP of 4:50
so yeah it would be rare but possible
but would be completely unproductive and possibly destructive as far as injury triggering
It worked just fine for Ron Clarke.
Yeah, it sure did...17 world records for Clarke.
I am no elite runner, just an old guy who loves to run, after picking up running late in life. I train in the 50-80 mile range year-round, and most of my training is within 10-15 seconds of my MP (2:49:01 PR in March...MP of 6:27). Things mostly depend upon the weather and how I am feeling. I take things as they come and train completely by feel. For example, today was 13.13 at 6:45 overall pace. I live in a hilly area, and run hilly routes.
Lydiard Cerutty wrote:
John Walker would of been able to do this in his prime, very similar to how he trained.
Nobody ever of been able to do this kind of mileage ever, but they may have been able to.
Sand Dunes wrote:
HRE wrote:
It's kind of struck me that this sort of training, fast, continuous, distance runs, was once sort of common and has mostly vanished today. But there were people who got good results with it.
True, back than they didn't really run "tempo runs". They just ran hard when they felt like it. This is a missing puzzle piece people forget about, and why runners back than often only did "one workout" a week back than. For example, if you look at the training log of Bill Rodgers he didn't do a lot of workouts. It was more unstructured and more free flowing. If you feel good, run hard. If you feel sore, run easy. More runners should train more like this, all this science jargon has made a simple task, too complicated. Keep it simple.
The first three sentences are not true. Did you run in the 70s and 80s? Not everyone's training was like Bill Rodgers' was.
SWAZ wrote:
Could they split the runs up into doubles? I'm sure that any globally-ranked 10,000m through Marathon runner could pretty easily do two runs/day of 7 miles at 5:00 pace.
That is 98 miles per week. Why are you trying to make it significantly harder than the OP originally asked?
The Overexplainer wrote:
Sure. I will give you some probable examples. Malmo may want to weight in on this as he was world class and always ran over 70 mpw. I am sure he would know whether this is possible and/or who could have done it.
John Walker
Ron Clarke
Mark Nenow
Sydney Maree
Ron Tabb
El Guerrouj
...
There are probably 3000 others who might have been able to.
Thousands of runners could do it if they focued on the task.