Good call or bad call? Highly ranked Ohio HS 4x800m team Hudson DQed at districts (state qualifying meet). Video here

erdyb wrote:

zoo_manimal wrote:

Because his lane-spanding had nothing to do with 3 and 4, who were, like, two weeks behind. He interfered with one runner...that runner should get the bump and win, but his foul didn't give him an advantage over 3 and 4, so why outright DQ?

That’s not really how racing sports operate. Besides, the DQ should serve as a deterrent to future potential interferers.

The buffoons who make these rules clearly do not understand that on a case-by-case basis, situations are not the same. It's as stupid as the storm of DQs at World Indoors.

Why on Earth would you DQ a team for something that had virtually no impact on the overall outcome, save 1st vs. 2nd place?

In addition, this is not a deterrent at all. Very few people actually go about INTENTIONALLY interfering with competitors. Nearly all cases of interference are unintentional, save for a select few exceptions, which are incredibly easy to spot (ex. Gebrselassie getting punched in the head at World Juniors). DQing somebody for interference will do absolutely nothing to actually prevent interference in the future.

DiscoGary wrote:

I don't see any contact at all. No DQ.

That is not the rule in Ohio.

He clearly positioned himself to try to get in the way of the other runner so that he could win. That is a DQ every day and all day in Ohio.

Hudson has the 6th fastest time coming into the post season, and a couple of the teams ahead of them haven't even run their complete A teams yet. Hudson had no chance to win the state meet...they likely would have been vying for a podium (top 8) finish, and toward the bottom of that top 8.

Justified DQ.

a smart runner wrote:

zoo_manimal wrote:

Dude, whatever. I'm aware of how "racing sports" operate. And T&F does actually operate consistent with what I'm saying, such as when "extra" athletes are advanced through to the next heat for a variety of circumstances at the international level. It's nonsensical to DQ someone who could have stopped, tied his shoe, checked his instagram feed, ordered a pizza, and still taken 2nd (a qualifying position) by a week and change. And not only that....a high school kid. DQ is needlessly cruel here.

Deterrence...pah! Conservative-minded rubbish.

Then that kid should have been smart enough to stop, tie his shoe and get a selfie instead of interfering and tripping the other kid. Stupid and selfish to do that when he and his teammates already qualified. Go beat that other team next week.

This is the closest response I've seen to the correct one. Foul/no foul notwithstanding, you are an idiot if you are trying to race someone to the line in a qualifying race where you are both comfortably through, especially in the first event of the day. The coach/coaches should be fired.

zoo_manimal wrote:

erdyb wrote:

Extra athletes are only advanced when they are the victim, not the one committing the foul. The margin of victory shouldn’t matter when applying the rules.

This isn't true. There was in impeding incident where the impeding runner was still advanced in the last Olympics...can't remember who and can't look it up now, but it happened/happens.

The spirit of the rule should also apply. Cutting is a foul because it impedes another runner's fair shot at winning. So, OK...the other runner wins. Has nothing to do with 3 and 4. Your unbending adherence to "rules" I don't understand.

The spirit of the rules do apply and were applied. The anchor runner was trying to impede another runner, which should be punished, and it was, appropriately. It was not an accidental tangling of the legs. He moved out to impede the other runner. DQ.

Seyta wrote:

Very few people actually go about INTENTIONALLY interfering with competitors.

Yet here's a video of one.

Look, if you're not going to DQ that kid, you're not DQ'ing anyone. That's a textbook disqualification. He went out of his way to interfere with another runner.

Then that kid should have been smart enough to stop, tie his shoe and get a selfie instead of interfering and tripping the other kid. Stupid and selfish to do that when he and his teammates already qualified. Go beat that other team next week.

Oh, I agree completely. It was beyond stupid.

Flagpole wrote:

DiscoGary wrote:

I don't see any contact at all. No DQ.

That is not the rule in Ohio.

He clearly positioned himself to try to get in the way of the other runner so that he could win. That is a DQ every day and all day in Ohio.

Hudson has the 6th fastest time coming into the post season, and a couple of the teams ahead of them haven't even run their complete A teams yet. Hudson had no chance to win the state meet...they likely would have been vying for a podium (top 8) finish, and toward the bottom of that top 8.

Justified DQ.

They both appear to drift out at the same time. I don't see any interference at all. The refs interpreted his desperate dive as interference. If the red guy doesn't dive for the line, there's no DQ. They got it wrong.

If that's interference in Ohio, then I don't know how anyone gets through a pack race like the mile without getting DQ'd.

erdyb wrote:

The spirit of the rules do apply and were applied. The anchor runner was trying to impede another runner, which should be punished, and it was, appropriately. It was not an accidental tangling of the legs. He moved out to impede the other runner. DQ.

Not sure you understand "spirit." Also, you're seeing things. I don't see any "tangling of the legs."

As for his intent, I guess you're a mind-reader? To me it looks less that he's trying to cut the other runner off than that he's edging him farther out, requiring him to run farther.

Look, I still think this kid's an idiot and clearly lost his mind for ten seconds. And I still think outright DQ (in a high school relay like this) is unduly cruel and inconsistent with the spirit of the rule (ie, not the letter of it).

Question

Did an on the track official call for the DQ as it happened or was the race reviewed on an appeal by a coach ?

zoo_manimal wrote:

erdyb wrote:

The spirit of the rules do apply and were applied. The anchor runner was trying to impede another runner, which should be punished, and it was, appropriately. It was not an accidental tangling of the legs. He moved out to impede the other runner. DQ.

Not sure you understand "spirit." Also, you're seeing things. I don't see any "tangling of the legs."

As for his intent, I guess you're a mind-reader? To me it looks less that he's trying to cut the other runner off than that he's edging him farther out, requiring him to run farther.

Look, I still think this kid's an idiot and clearly lost his mind for ten seconds. And I still think outright DQ (in a high school relay like this) is unduly cruel and inconsistent with the spirit of the rule (ie, not the letter of it).

1) I didn't say this incident was a tangling of the legs. I was saying that it was not analogous to a couple of runners accidentally tangling their legs in a pack.

2) Trying to make another runner run further is impeding.

3) I think the spirit of the rule is that if you're intentionally impeding another runner, then you're out because you aren't playing by the rules we agreed upon.

Dunno.... It almost looked like 2nd place guy took a soccer style dive. Good way to knock out another team, eh? They're DQ'd, your 2nd place is the new 1st.

This is a tough call either way, clearly.

I would not have personally made this call (Maybe at an invitational, but not during a state tournament meet. But, that's probably why I would make a lousy official)

However, I do not have an issue with this call at all. Hudson clearly runs the other team nearly into lane 4 by the finish line. The fact that he went from the inside rail to lane 3 himself shows that he was trying to get in the way and not let him pass. It is very unfortunate for Hudson, especially for their 4th leg, but he did intentionally do something against the rules.

~

A lot of people have mentioned just moving them back to 2nd place, but unfortunately there are not rules for that in Track (at least not in Ohio)

It would be interesting to see if track moved to a system where there were minor and major infractions. A minor infraction moves you back a place in the standings, and then a major infraction results in a DQ. I've always felt like some minor mistakes (stepping over the rail, false starts, a few other situations) do not really warrant a DQ and it's a shame when good athletes or teams have their chances ruined over very small mistakes. That cannot be good for the sport.

DiscoGary wrote:

I don't see any contact at all. No DQ.

Probably the only time I've ever agreed with DG....

No idea how anyone thinks this is a DQ. He moved over like half a lane... didn't seem to interrupt his opponents stride or rhythm at all.

No idea why someone said he made the other kid fall????? You blind, bro?

Is that guy running his first middle school race? That's the last time a saw a someone try to fade another runner so far from lane 1 when they are getting kicked down.

The kid in white takes three steps on the line between 2/3 at the finish, but this was after the kid in red drifted out into lane 3. Neither kid is a genius here, they both should be focused on qualifying, but they are kids being competitive. Let 'em race.

No contact no foul. This is worse than the Salazar/Hasay/Grunewald debacle.

Ohio should push to change the rule and add "relegated" as a punishment. Pro cycling does this all the time. Just the other day a guy won an intermediate sprint in the Giro but was relegated to 5th because a teammate was actually pushing him on the saddle through the line. There was a group of 5 riders like a minute ahead of the peleton. This guy was relegated to the last place of the pack he was in at the time.

Track could do the same thing. Hudson could have been relegated to second place and both teams could have been given the same time as the team in red for the official results. That would have been approprate.

anacondarunner wrote:

The end of the 4x800 can be seen 18:39 into the video. Hudson is the team in white. All they had to do was finish in the top 4 to move on to the regional meet, where they would have almost certainly proceeded to qualify for state.

Good call or bad call?

who cares? they were on pace for a 7:53 which according to athletic/net's website wouldn't even place them in the top 40 nationally for this event this year

This is correct. Not sure what video Flagpole and others are watching.