How often can a 4 hour marathoner turn into a 3 hour marathoner?

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7 years ago 03/14/2018 10:21am EDT

re: honest

honest wrote:
irunnaked wrote:
35 years old.
25-30 mpw running 4 days a week
Honest reply:
Every single healthy male under 45 can go from a 4 hour marathon to a 3 hour marathon. None, or almost none, can do it on 25-30 mpw.
It might take you 50 mpw, it might take you 100 mpw over an extended period of time, you'll have to find out for yourself. But the question is not if it's possible, the question is if you want to do it.
If you want to run sub 3 hours:
Slowly (!) raise your mileage until you're running at least 50-60 mpw and 6-7 days a week. Meanwhile, race only shorter distances. When you've reached 50-60 mpw, do a marathon build-up and race one. Then, recover for a month. Increase your mileage by 5-10 mpw and when it has stabilized, again, do a marathon build-up and race one. Stop when you've run sub 3 or continue. The question is not if you will reach sub 3, but when.

Thanks for the reply, I appreciate it!

Question semi-related to this: In December, I had noticed my weekly mileage declining significantly and I was catching myself saying "I'll run tomorrow..." and then not following up on it.

Since then, I decided to try a "run streak" of at least a mile a day to make myself more accountable.

Do you guys/gals think that never having a day off is going to make me more injury-prone or make my workouts suffer? I'm not opposed to doing a slow 1 mile to mark it off the list. I'm 77 days into my streak and was hoping to hit the 365 mark, but I don't want to do that if it will end up holding me back more than helping.

7 years ago 03/14/2018 10:35am EDT

re: irunnaked

At age 33 I ran 4:08. Between 38-40 I ran five sub-threes with a best of 2:47.

Pretty simple change of adding mileage (35-70mpw) and dropping weight (160-130). Also, I’d previously never varied my training paces.

7 years ago 03/14/2018 10:48am EDT

re: Slopenguinrunner

Slopenguinrunner wrote:
From what I gathered researching training guides and top coaches, they always discuss that a weekly long run is about 20-25% of your weekly mileage.

No, this is simply incorrect. Your long run absolutely does not get longer in equal proportion to your weekly mileage. Almost everyone tops out their marathon long runs at around 20 miles, regardless of whether you're doing 40 mpw or 120 mpw.

It's true that doing a true long run on a low mileage plan means that the long run is extremely taxing and that you're not getting in other kinds of training, but that's actually how it's supposed to be. If you want to complete a 26 mile run without investing a lot of time in running, you absolutely should be focused on extending the length of your longest run. That gives you the most bang for your buck. High mileage runners, by contrast, are less dependent on their long runs because the cumulative fatigue of the mileage is the training stimulus.

7 years ago 03/14/2018 11:29am EDT

re: 800 dude

800 dude wrote:
Slopenguinrunner wrote:
From what I gathered researching training guides and top coaches, they always discuss that a weekly long run is about 20-25% of your weekly mileage.
No, this is simply incorrect. Your long run absolutely does not get longer in equal proportion to your weekly mileage. Almost everyone tops out their marathon long runs at around 20 miles, regardless of whether you're doing 40 mpw or 120 mpw.
It's true that doing a true long run on a low mileage plan means that the long run is extremely taxing and that you're not getting in other kinds of training, but that's actually how it's supposed to be. If you want to complete a 26 mile run without investing a lot of time in running, you absolutely should be focused on extending the length of your longest run. That gives you the most bang for your buck. High mileage runners, by contrast, are less dependent on their long runs because the cumulative fatigue of the mileage is the training stimulus.

You are right.

But I will clarify what I meant. In order to not improperly increase the risk of injury or overtraining and to optimize your training, the most your weekly long run should be is 20-25%.

So even at 120 mpw, a 24 mile long run is within that range. 20 mile run in the midst of 40 mpw isn't in that range.

As I interpreted discussions of how percentages of mileage is allocated for easy running, tempo running, race pace running, long runs, etc., it's more about the percentage of what mileage you can do that is safe for your training to reduce the risk of injury or overtraining.

Plus not all long runs are the same. Some of them should have significant portions of them done at goal marathon pace, not just easy long run pace. So it's not just focusing on extended the length of your longest run; it's also about extending the ability to run marathon pace. As the OP noted, he wants to get from 4:00 to 3:00; it's no longer just about completing a marathon.

7 years ago 03/14/2018 11:42am EDT

re: Hardloper

Hardloper wrote:
irunnaked wrote:
25-30 mpw
Found your problem

Is it the mpw or the naked part that’s the problem

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