Nobody talking about Ross Tucker v Paula radcliffe on twitter.... spat central!

Or maybe it was a Freudian slip.

theory wrote:

Shake Well wrote:

Huh? I'm curious how not releasing her scores "would help" people cheat. I'm honestly asking. Please tell me what I'm not seeing.

Maybe Paula's profile could be used by dopers as a threshold to stay under and dopers could say "hey you let off Paula with that sort of profile and so you cannot convict me - I was dehydrated ,had kidney failure etc etc".

I thought Paula's values already crossed a threshold , that is why it was tagged as "probable" . Isn't this why she asked Coe to produce a report that she was clean? Maybe these threshold values aren't used anymore......

East vs West wrote:

Shake Well wrote:

Huh? I'm curious how not releasing her scores "would help" people cheat. I'm honestly asking. Please tell me what I'm not seeing.

I'm more interested in the process of acquiring an independent investigation to confirm " clean" ? Has any other athlete that has never tested positive , receive an additional vote of confidence from the IAAF?

She used the IAAF's "fix it" guy, Martial Saugy. Martial runs IOC testing in Switzerland. It seems pretty obvious the IAAF helped her. Coe backed her up.

We know Saugy is dirty. He shows up in IAAF bribery emails paraphrased as "just in case we don't get this positive buried, we can call Martial."

Martial is a strange case, though. In one of his published research he clearly showed the IAAF doing nothing to stop doping. Other times, he's buried positives by having samples and scores shipped to him, then declaring the other lab's process was "wrong." Poof! Positive gone!

Could it be more about politics than athletics?

Blood Values wrote:

theory wrote:

Maybe Paula's profile could be used by dopers as a threshold to stay under and dopers could say "hey you let off Paula with that sort of profile and so you cannot convict me - I was dehydrated ,had kidney failure etc etc".

I thought Paula's values already crossed a threshold , that is why it was tagged as "probable" . Isn't this why she asked Coe to produce a report that she was clean? Maybe these threshold values aren't used anymore......

Or maybe some blood thresholds are more equal than others in the IAAF ....

dsfasdsadfasf wrote:

I'm 34. I honestly have no idea how to read Twitter conversations in a way that makes them intelligible. I don't know if that's because they aren't intelligible or because I don't know how to Twitter.

If I scroll down on your post, I don't see anything that Paula says.

If I click the link and scroll through various comments on Tucker's Twitter, I see that Paula Radcliffe says something about asking questions creating noise (I don't understand the context) and that she hasn't made her values public because it would help cheaters evade detection.

If I scroll through Paula's Twitter I don't see her comments on others' posts?

Please summarize.

We 100% agree. We don't know how to do it either so we have taken screen shots and embedded them into an article that yu can scroll through in about 15 seconds.

If we are missing any relevant tweets or if you know what started all of this, please email us at

.

The one question we still have is where Tucker’s first tweet below came from and why Radcliffe responded to it.

Update: We figured out how it all started and updated the article. The exchange began when Tucker quoted a tweet of Radcliffe’s from a separate thread in which Radcliffe explained why she chose not to release her full athlete biological passport data (ABP) in 2015. Tucker called Radcliffe a hypocrite, and the argument escalated from there.

OP, Great thread. I saw this going on yesterday and meant to talk to the very twitter savvy jonathan gault about it to see wha was going on but forgot. I got up at 5 am to help the wife feed the baby and saw this and decided to put screenshots into a doc to help everyone out. (see the link in the post above). When I get up , I'll try to actually learn what is going on. Does anyone know what started the back and forth?

This is fascinating to me as it involves 3 of the people I find most interesting - and 3 of whom i respect the most - in the sport all at once.

East vs West wrote:

Not unless Coe reverses his "independent" investigation.

One can only hope.

Coe - as the new President - publicly declared Paula to be innocent, before the IAAF started looking into it. His stuff literally had to obey.

Also, remember that the IAAF was not really investigating Paula; they were defending themselves after having been accused of not prosecuting drug cheats. So their whole "document" ended up with circular logic such as:

We target tested Paula after her suspicious values because we were so tough on dopers, but found nothing, proving that we were tough and Paula was clean. Also the values were not really suspicious, proving how we tough we were on doping, and that Paula was clean.

Moreover, one finds statements such as "Paula said" and "Paula claimed" in that "document" that were not backed up by facts; rather the IAAF treated Paula's word as fact. In doing so, they concluded she was clean.

rojo wrote:

OP, Great thread. I saw this going on yesterday and meant to talk to the very twitter savvy jonathan gault about it to see wha was going on but forgot. I got up at 5 am to help the wife feed the baby and saw this and decided to put screenshots into a doc to help everyone out. (see the link in the post above). When I get up , I'll try to actually learn what is going on. Does anyone know what started the back and forth?

This is fascinating to me as it involves 3 of the people I find most interesting - and 3 of whom i respect the most - in the sport all at once.

Not sure how to copy and paste but it appears there was some study about how 70% of the British swimming team has asthma and a (snarky) comment was made by Robin Parisotto about how it seems like you have to have a medical condition in order to become an elite athlete so if your kids are 100% healthy they don't have a chance. Paula (the asthma "sufferer" herself) then interjected something about kids who have asthma aren't unhealthy and should be given the chance. Then Robin said she wasn't talking about asthma in children and then Paula went off topic and asked Robin if she would answer questions she refused in 2015 at which point someone pointed out the hypocrisy with Paula accusing others of hiding when she refused to release her biological passport data.

Still trying to find when Ross Tucker got involved but that appears to be the start of it.

Freshman is insufferable. Pulls the "mansplaining" comment from the onset as an apparent reflex, when it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the discussion. Can you imagine how beat down her husband must be?

Ugh. Just ugh. wrote:

Freshman is insufferable. Pulls the "mansplaining" comment from the onset as an apparent reflex, when it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the discussion. Can you imagine how beat down her husband must be?

i dont know about her husband, but i know paulas husband (my secret lover) Gary Pariah Rekrunner is the most amazing man on the planet!!!

LONG LIVE OUR LORD AND SAVIOR RENATO AND HIS HOLY PROPHET GARY PARIAH REKRUNNER!!!

EPO AND PEDS DONT WORK! AMEN!!

Ugh. Just ugh. wrote:

Freshman is insufferable. Pulls the "mansplaining" comment from the onset as an apparent reflex, when it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the discussion. Can you imagine how beat down her husband must be?

*Fleshman

pop_pop!_v2.2.1 wrote:

As internal IAAF emails showed, Saugy was the IAAF's "cleaner." Someone tests positive that's valuable to the IAAF had their samples sent from the testing lab to Saugy in Switzerland. Saugy would then proclaim "lab error" and the positive is swept away. The same IAAF that was bribing athletes to not start a case on a positive sample.

Can you please provide a link to an article with this email? I don't recall this.

And if all of that is true, then how do you explain the following? Why wouldn't the #1 expert want to sit down with her?

Ugh. Just ugh. wrote:

Freshman is insufferable. Pulls the "mansplaining" comment from the onset as an apparent reflex, when it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the discussion. Can you imagine how beat down her husband must be?

Fleshman is a fame ho'. She only tweeter her way into that discussion in an effort to raise her visibility. She's already admitted she doped under Salazar. Was she an actual whistle blower in the Salazar investigation? More likely she was ratted out by Goucher, forcing her hand.

rojo wrote:

Why wouldn't the #1 expert want to sit down with her?

I have no idea.

Maybe a relatively anonymous scientist doesn't want to go up against one of the more visible running brands who was ready, and could afford to litigate anyone and also had the assistance of the IAAF?

Does he still do profile analysis for sports federations? Maybe he doesn't want to lose interesting work in a narrow niche by challenging a sports federation?

I don't really really know.

I'll find the link to the email. I can't do it right now.

Email leaked by Seppelt from Nick Davies to Papa Massata Diack detailing a secret "five point plan" to delay naming Russian drug cheats. July 19, 2013 is probably the date of the email.

Option 5(?) was Saugy as the IAAF's guy to bury the positives. Since you are supposed to be the journalist, you find the email online.

How is anyone supposed to take this "Sport Law Conference" seriously when the ad has a picture of some dope with terrible form jumping over a backward hurdle?

And this Ross douche felt comfortable retweeting it.

Scathing and hilarious (from Ross)!

"If only all athletes embraced half-transparency while aggressively threatening lawsuits about their own results, while calling for full transparency and punishment in others. What courageous altruism, taking the hit to her reputation like this. All for the good of the system."

Ugh. Just ugh. wrote:

Freshman is insufferable. Pulls the "mansplaining" comment from the onset as an apparent reflex, when it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the discussion. Can you imagine how beat down her husband must be?

Freshman was noted on the leaked interim USADA report as one of the athletes "requiring asthma " meds.