.....I mean, we're impressed now when someone gets near 3:50 in the mile, 7 SECONDS off the world record.
That suggests that a clean world record would probably be around 3:49.
.....I mean, we're impressed now when someone gets near 3:50 in the mile, 7 SECONDS off the world record.
That suggests that a clean world record would probably be around 3:49.
I disagree, that’s only a 1:54 average per 800. Assuming the “clean” 800m WR is at least 1:44, that is a tragic fall off from pace. I think the it is safe to say the best unaided mile isn’t likely to be that far off from El Guerrouj’s record. 3:46 (a 1:52 average) is the least I’d go with.
Rotich the Rotich wrote:
I disagree, that’s only a 1:54 average per 800. Assuming the “clean” 800m WR is at least 1:44, that is a tragic fall off from pace. I think the it is safe to say the best unaided mile isn’t likely to be that far off from El Guerrouj’s record. 3:46 (a 1:52 average) is the least I’d go with.
The clean 800m WR is 1:40.91
ex-runner wrote:
The clean 800m WR is 1:40.91
I agree with this. There's no way of proving it definitively, but I would be astonished and incredibly crushed if Rudisha was a PED user. I just can't imagine it.
Once at a cross country race I misjudged where the finish line was by about 100 meters and did my all-out kick too early (it was a hot day and I was pretty loopy at the time). By the time I had realized what I had done, my body was so flooded with lactic acid that my lower body locked up and I fell to the ground involuntarily. I would imagine something similar but probably less dramatic would happen to El G.
Although, Lopez Lomong managed to kick a whole 400m too early in a 5k and still managed to win the race looking strong.
My point exactly. It’s absurd to continue to accuse El Guerrouj of using PEDs simply based on his times. His records aren’t as boggling when compared to other records. However, I will admit, in recent decades the pace gap between the half-mile and mile has shrunk significantly. Cow had to run 1:41 years before running 3:29/3:46
Rotich the Rotich wrote:
My point exactly. It’s absurd to continue to accuse El Guerrouj of using PEDs simply based on his times. His records aren’t as boggling when compared to other records. However, I will admit, in recent decades the pace gap between the half-mile and mile has shrunk significantly. Coe had to run 1:41 years before running 3:29/3:46.
How about the others in the all-time Top Ten Mile Times?
Could any of the rest of them have run faster, or threatened ElG's record under the right circumstances?
Could Webb have run faster in a world-record attempt with a world-class field in say, Rome or Oslo?... instead of on a track in the Belgium forest at a low-key meet? How about Daniel Komen?... think he was maxed at 3:46?
Rest of the 'Top 25' here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mile_run
1 3:43.13 Hicham El Guerrouj Morocco 7 July 1999 Golden Gala
2 3:43.40 Noah Ngeny Kenya 7 July 1999 Golden Gala
3 3:44.39 Noureddine Morceli Algeria 5 September 1993 Rieti Meeting
4 3:46.32 Steve Cram Great Britain 27 July 1985 Bislett Games
5 3:46.38 Daniel Komen Kenya 28 August 1998 ISTAF Berlin
6 3:46.70 Vénuste Niyongabo Burundi 28 August 1998 ISTAF Berlin
7 3:46.76 Saïd Aouita Morocco 2 July 1987 Helsinki
8 3:46.91 Alan Webb United States 21 July 2007 Brasschaat
9 3:47.28 Bernard Lagat Kenya 29 June 2001 Golden Gala
10 3:47.32 Ayanleh Souleiman Djibouti 31 May 2014 Eugene
are you implying that webb was doped?
BS
the clean mile WR is 3:46 by webb.
Oh. No, I was not implying that Webb was doped. It didn't occur to me. I just wondered if he could have run faster in a race set up to challenge the world record... with other leading milers.
epicTCK wrote:
are you implying that webb was doped?
BS
the clean mile WR is 3:46 by webb.
Is Webb is clean then so is Cram and Morceli.
There is no drug scandal around the UK or Algeria like there has been around Kenya and Morocco. Or the US for that matter...
And Niyongabo also.
agreed wrote:
ex-runner wrote:
The clean 800m WR is 1:40.91
I agree with this. There's no way of proving it definitively, but I would be astonished and incredibly crushed if Rudisha was a PED user. I just can't imagine it.
There's no reason to suspect Rudisha other than his nationality - something I'm not comfortable with.
He runs 1:50 for his first ever try at the 800m at age 14, all caught on video. Just a freak of nature.
I'm not sure that has ever happened before or since.
I don't find anything suspicious about him personally.
RunnAnnArbor wrote:
How about the others in the all-time Top Ten Mile Times?
Could any of the rest of them have run faster, or threatened ElG's record under the right circumstances?
Could Webb have run faster in a world-record attempt with a world-class field in say, Rome or Oslo?... instead of on a track in the Belgium forest at a low-key meet? How about Daniel Komen?... think he was maxed at 3:46?
I’m not sure what you’re getting at. I couldn’t tell you if any of those guys could run as fast as El Guerrouj. I think it’s fair to note that the difference in pace between Guerrouj and the rest of the top 5 is less than a second per lap. I’m not sure if all five could have made the 3 second jump and competed with Guerrouj, but even if they were able to make up half a second, the difference in pace( and equally fitness) is almost negligible. To make claims of drug use on that basis is just ooor judgment.
If he kept running in that particular race he wouldn't have broken 3:50 because he would have locked up after 1500m.
kjjlkqj wrote:
El G was clean.
Deal with it.
GOAT.
Troll?
RunnAnnArbor wrote:
How about the others in the all-time Top Ten Mile Times?
Could any of the rest of them have run faster, or threatened ElG's record under the right circumstances?
Could Webb have run faster in a world-record attempt with a world-class field in say, Rome or Oslo?... instead of on a track in the Belgium forest at a low-key meet? How about Daniel Komen?... think he was maxed at 3:46?
Rest of the 'Top 25' here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mile_run1 3:43.13 Hicham El Guerrouj Morocco 7 July 1999 Golden Gala
2 3:43.40 Noah Ngeny Kenya 7 July 1999 Golden Gala
3 3:44.39 Noureddine Morceli Algeria 5 September 1993 Rieti Meeting
4 3:46.32 Steve Cram Great Britain 27 July 1985 Bislett Games
5 3:46.38 Daniel Komen Kenya 28 August 1998 ISTAF Berlin
6 3:46.70 Vénuste Niyongabo Burundi 28 August 1998 ISTAF Berlin
7 3:46.76 Saïd Aouita Morocco 2 July 1987 Helsinki
8 3:46.91 Alan Webb United States 21 July 2007 Brasschaat
9 3:47.28 Bernard Lagat Kenya 29 June 2001 Golden Gala
10 3:47.32 Ayanleh Souleiman Djibouti 31 May 2014 Eugene
It's widely accepted that Cram could have ran under 3:45 if he had been better paced that night. Unlike El G in that 1500m, he was getting stronger with every stride at the end. He had plenty left.
So let's say Cram 3:45:00 with better 'circumstances' in 85, and the same Cram put in a time machine and put in a Mile race in 1999 with a few years benefit of EPO in him, I'd say he might crack 3:40.
A 17 second gap between the 1500 and Mile record has always been about the historic norm hasn't it? I mean when Coe, Cram, Ovett were running 3:29/30 their Mile records were 3:46/47/48. Obviouly with the benefits of EPO, perhaps you would expect El G to bring it down to maybe 16 seconds which is almost what he did.
Although the OP is bull, it would have been great to see El G run something totally ridiculous like 3:41. It would only have made it that much more obvious that he was on EPO and all his times are fraudulent. Does anyone really think that El G was naturally about a second and a half a lap faster than Cram and Coe at their imperious bests?
Also, to the idiot who said nobody has run the 800m under 1:44 clean - are you really saying that even the likes of Dave Wottle and Ivo Van Damme in the 70s were doping? If they were doping, why not the 50s and 60s runners? Maybe nobody has run under 1:46 clean?
Coevett wrote:
El G was notorious like all the other great EPO runners for running ridiculously fast times and looking like they weren't even out of breath at the end.
But if you actually rewatch his 3:26.00 you can see that he likely couldn't run for another 50 meters let alone 109 meters in 17 seconds. You can see the lactic acid stores in his legs reach their very limt about 10 meters before the finshing line. Judged perfectly of course, if he'd been running a Mile that night he wouldn't have ran the first 1500m quite so fast. Does that make any kind of sense to you guys?
https://youtu.be/6fFAU3B31cc?t=55sBTW, is that Steve Ovett commentating with a thick Australian accent? How surreal is that? Steve Ovett, maybe the most naturally gifted Miler of all time and commentating in an Ozzie accent in a race in which a doped up Moroccan runs nearly 5 seconds faster than him (and not much more than a decade after him).
I know Americans never leave their country but Ovett sounds the same as he always did.