Is Sondre Nordstad Moen the fastest non african right now?

that is hugely misleading on so many levels

Kenya's population explosion has occurred mostly around the big cities where huge shanty towns have built up housing this population living at/below subsistence level

there is no comparison to norway which has one of richest per capita countries in the world with no malnutrition & kids being able to do virtually any sport they want to & have backing if they show sliver of talent

then, most of Kenya's runners come from a population of a handful of millions in the Rift Valley & sport is by no means their main aim in life - it is just to survive

most runners are just desperate, having enough of poverty & have a go at running, not even possibly the best specimens doing running

Kimmeto was just a farmer who geoff mutai saw doing some running & he invited him to join their camp & in little more than coupla years he was M WR holder !!!

where do you see in norway some random guy within coupla years breaking the M WR ???

in Kenya, that is a trivial achievement

many of the guys are related

Billy Konchellah ran 1'43.0 to win '87 gold in incredible fashion, which wouda been 1'41-high if route-1, 1-off run in a zurich

his bro, Partick once ran 1'42.98 !!

his son, Greg ran 1'42.79 !!! & won a global gold but not at 800 !!!

then Chelimo ran 27'07WR in '93 & i belive Kirui was his bro & he mostly solo'ed a 5k WC gold in 13'02, beating geb when WR was only 12'58

there are truckload more of related Kenyans who run fast

& if those african countries had same standard of living, nutrition, facilities, etc, they'd win all those medals back...

Good to see you back! Happy New Year.

East African has a geographic advantage not seen in much of the world, high altitude, warm weather, soft roads, hills, a population that isn't gorging on processed food.

I was thinking, Billy, Patrick and Gregory Konchellah are far form unusual. Fellow Maasai tribesmen Daniel and David Rudisha as well as Elijah Manangoi and his talented up and coming brother are, George are just a few examples of running families. Others likeMoses, Linet and Magdalene Masai are siblings. As are Richard Chelimo and Ismael Kirui, Joseph Ebuya and Alice Aprot, Gideon and Valentine Kipketer and many others not mentioning the many cousins and people like former 2:06 Marathoner William Kiplagat who is Florence’s uncle.

no galen no go wrote:

is he it wrote:

Seriously I don't get why more people didn't talk about his 2:05:48 at Fukuoka, that has to be the fastest time of any white person in history (other than 20 mph tailwind year at Boston)

And now a 2:05 guy big deal, the country is literally a hotbed of endurance talent if they ever cared about running and just 1/10 and 1/20 the size of Kenya/Ethiopia, just look at the Olympic Winter Games medals tables.

A country cannot be a literal hotbed. It can be a figurative hotbed.

This myth of "geographical advantage" is persistent but misleading. Thereb are many countries that are high altitude but don't produce the quality of athletes that Kenya and Ethiopia have. Bolivia, Colombia, Ecuador, Mongolia, Tibet, etc

Ultimately it boils down to a lot of hard work.

calculo wrote:

& if those african countries had same standard of living, nutrition, facilities, etc, they'd win all those medals back...

Chances are with the same standard of living the African countries would have less. Most of the greats would of chosen something easier to be successful in.

and EPO

guarantee if some big name genius coach went to tibet and worked there for 4-5 yrs with the top talent only with EPO, then boom in the end of 5 years there would be someone that would be running world best times.

i know there is one coach in africa that will argue and insult me, but he can call me names and hassle and have my comments deleted all he wants. you can go to gallup NM and do the same thing and you will have a Navajo run top world times.

the thing is in kenya and ethiopia there is a culture of running, tibet and navajo reservation not so much. japan has a great running culture but they dont take EPO, but if they did no doubt they would be up there with the top times. before the EPO era they were right there with the best.

i personally believe sherpas have the best genetics for endurance than anyone out there. they have been living at extreme altitude for thousands of years. not only this but they have strength on a small build as well, hauling climbers sh*t up and down everest. not only are they shorter, smaller than the white rich climbers, but they do all this with sub par gear and sometimes without oxygen.

how much weight do you think KB or kiprop could carry while hiking up a steep mountain? oh and doing technical moves with crampons and using an ice axe as well! the sherpas do this day in and day out, their legs are obviously STRONG, their hearts obviously strong, they have incredible athleticism, not just a pair of legs and lungs. but their culture is the culture of doing mts for rich white people not running.

argue if you want but reality says they have the potential to be the best runners in the world. if your a good coach go there and give it 4-5yrs and you will have great runners, and then sauce them up on EPO and boom...

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-40006803

oh and dont give me this annoying "they are too stocky", looks like they are pretty petite and small bone structures to me

http://www.malloryontravel.com/2013/06/hot-tips/survival-guide/everest-trekking-in-nepal-adventure-travel-photography-2/

nonsense

give those Rift Valley guys a guaranteed ~ 3000 calories & 100g of protein/day age-adjusted from childhood to adulthood & they woud run helluva lot faster than if you took away the altitude, variable warm weather interspersed with frequent rain when they don't train

how fast do you think this guy couda run or achieved in the M if he'd had a decent nutritional history as a kid ???

Fake "facts". They are not malnourished.

If he was on a western diet, he would likely not break 3:00

Has Rupp or Moen talked/called out the other one? Are there any potential races coming up that we see them head to head? My money is on Moen.

adiBRO wrote:

Has Rupp or Moen talked/called out the other one? Are there any potential races coming up that we see them head to head? My money is on Moen.

For sure that would be a superb race if both are at 100 %. Rupp ran the last 10k in Chicago in what? Like 28:20? And Moen ran 59:xx and 2:05 with a last 10k of 29:15ish or so. So definitely mindblowing.

It won't happen, but I would love to see Rupp and Moen in London going out like Ryan Hall in 2008... just full risk, all-in with the leaders. I even could imagine Rupp or Moen going 2:04.

Moen is the Fastest White Man (FWM) now.

Watch out Galen!!!

Galen is scared of Moen.

Behold Moen:

Men (10km)

1 Muktar Edris (ETH) 28:45

2 Soufiane Bouqantar (MAR) 29:07

3 Hicham Amghar (MAR) 29:08

4 Yeman Crippa (ITA) 29:25

5 Sondre Nordstad Moen (NOR) 29:28

6 Kaan Kigen Ozbilen (TUR) 29:30

7 Jonas Raess (SUI) 29:42

8 Yassin Bouih (ITA) 29:45

9 Andy Vernon (GBR) 30:22

10 Andrea Lalli (ITA) 30:31

Moen DOMINATES as the FWM in the world.

What the biochemical tests on the muscle showed was that the Sherpas' tissue was able to make much better use of oxygen by limiting the amount of body fat burned and maximising the glucose consumption.

"Fat is a great fuel, but the problem is that it's more oxygen hungry ( = NOT AS EFFICIENT) than glucose," Prof Murray explained.

In other words, by preferentially burning body sugar rather than body fat, the Sherpas can produce MORE ENERGY PER UNIT OF OXYGEN.

(This is not good news for stupid people who think that increasing fat burning by eating a high-fat diet is the key to running faster marathons.)

A genetic variation altering the way fats are burned was established.

While all of the Sherpas carried the variant of the metabolic gene that favors burning glucose, almost none of the lowland volunteers did.

Sherpas are a specific population amongst the Nepalese ("the Ferraris of the Himalayans", Formenti calls them) who migrated to the country 500 years ago from Tibet, which has been occupied by humans for at least 6,000 years. That is plenty of time for a beneficial gene to become embedded, Prof Murray argues.

"It's not down to one gene, of course. We see better blood flow through the capillaries; and they appear to have a richer capillary network as well so that the oxygen can be delivered better to the tissues. But this gene would also have given them some advantage."

They used parallel molecular, biochemical, physiological, and genetic approaches to the study of Sherpas and native Lowlanders, studied before and during exposure to hypobaric hypoxia on a gradual ascent to Mount Everest Base Camp (5,300 m).

Compared with Lowlanders, Sherpas demonstrated a LOWER capacity for fatty acid oxidation in skeletal muscle biopsies, along with enhanced efficiency of oxygen utilization, improved muscle energetics, and protection against oxidative stress.

This adaptation appeared to be related, in part, to a putatively advantageous allele for the peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor A (PPARA) gene, which was enriched in the Sherpas compared with the Lowlanders. The findings suggest that metabolic adaptations underpin human evolution to life at high altitude, and could have an impact upon the understanding of human diseases in which hypoxia is a feature.

http://www.pnas.org/content/114/24/6382

It is not a big surprise:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2937734.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3734931.stm

Slightly off topic but I realized that the guy who came 2nd at the norwegian 5000m championships was in fact Moen! Maybe I've been under a rock by LRC standards but it's insane that young Jakob was able to hold off a sub 60 and sub 2:06 half/marathoner! He has got to be able to run 13:05 or so (Moen).

MyKey wrote:

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

& if those african countries had same standard of living, nutrition, facilities, etc, they'd win all those medals back...

East African has a geographic advantage not seen in much of the world, high altitude, warm weather, soft roads, hills, a population that isn't gorging on processed food.

This myth of "geographical advantage" is persistent but misleading. Thereb are many countries that are high altitude but don't produce the quality of athletes that Kenya and Ethiopia have. Bolivia, Colombia, Ecuador, Mongolia, Tibet, etc

Ultimately it boils down to a lot of hard work.[/quote]

Well obviously you have to do the training, you also have to have a culture of elite running but Bolivia, Colombia, Ecuador, Mongolia, Tibet are either too mountainous or are jungles. Whereas Kenya and Ethiopia are more of a plateau, undulating. Mexico is really the only anomaly, but they have a junk food problem ?. Arizona, Nevada and New Mexico are really the only plausible other places to train.

calculo wrote:

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:East African has a geographic advantage not seen in much of the world, high altitude, warm weather, soft roads, hills, a population that isn't gorging on processed food

nonsense

give those Rift Valley guys a guaranteed ~ 3000 calories & 100g of protein/day age-adjusted from childhood to adulthood & they woud run helluva lot faster than if you took away the altitude, variable warm weather interspersed with frequent rain when they don't train

how fast do you think this guy couda run or achieved in the M if he'd had a decent nutritional history as a kid ???

For your eyes only Venti,

3,000 per day, then why is Yannis restricting Bekele's intake to 1,000-1,500 per day to get him in shape?

Hi Mindweak, how are you? Interesting about the Sherpas but didn't Ed Hillary beat them?