Bosse an Kszot, slowest in pure speed over 400

Ghost1 wrote:

Bosse and Kszot are probably the slowest in oure 400m speed, in the 47-48 secs range, base speed. So somewhat like Cram, from the past, it shows you can be at the top, eso. in Champs situation with prelims, without blazing 400 speed -below 46 seconds.

47 perhaps, but no way 48 and be capable of running 1:43, I just don't think its possible. I know Kszot has run on some 4x4s, which means he's probably capable of sub-47.

TrackCoach wrote:

Ghost1 wrote:

Bosse and Kszot are probably the slowest in oure 400m speed, in the 47-48 secs range, base speed. So somewhat like Cram, from the past, it shows you can be at the top, eso. in Champs situation with prelims, without blazing 400 speed -below 46 seconds.

47 perhaps, but no way 48 and be capable of running 1:43, I just don't think its possible. I know Kszot has run on some 4x4s, which means he's probably capable of sub-47.

Agree.

Does anyone have any details or links to Kszczot's 400 relay legs?

If he goes out in a 600m in 47.x, even if he was drafting off of Rudisha, he had plenty left to run the last 200m in 26 and would have been saving for the last 200m. Most don't come within two seconds of their 400m pr in a 600m. Bosse had sub 46 speed.

What's important is his 250 speed: for the final 250 of the race yesterday.

Wilson Kipketer -- one of the best ever -- had a 400 pr of only 46.85. Yet he ran 1:41.11 for 800m.

He ran last 4x400 in 2011. Never serious, only club competitions in Poland, usually just after 800 m. There is no record of time, but the whole relay did times between 3:16 and 3:23, so nothing special.

Please be aware of one more thing - Adam changed coaches in 2012. Present coach, Zbigniew Krol, is more endurance coach than Stanislaw Jaszczak, who coached him before. And Adam's relationship with present coach is more of a partnership then mentor-athlete type of co-working. Adam has a good knowledge of training and probably could be training by himself only. He does a good amount of strenght training but no pure speed. All the polish school is more about technical stuff and power than speed.

Adam himself said to me, that he could probably run 45 sekund. He did 47 second at the end of a session of four repetitions of 400 m during camp in South Africa.

Les wrote:

Wilson Kipketer -- one of the best ever -- had a 400 pr of only 46.85. Yet he ran 1:41.11 for 800m.

That is only partially true. Kipketer worked with polish multi-event and sprint coach, Slawomir Nowak. Nobody remembers that polish coach was responsible for his career, taking him from 1:45 to 1:41. Nowak was always secretive about hist training methods, but it is known in Poland, that Kipketer did a large amount of speed and was very fast. Btw, I remember seeing Kipketer during a camp in polish athletic camp-place Spala, doing exercises, about 15 years ago.

So - Kipketer didn't race 400m, but he was bloody fast. Rudisha-type. You need both speed and endurance to be succesful in 2 laps. Marcin Lewandowski lacks speed, but guys like Korir or Brazier don't have needed endurance.

Bosse believes he could run low 46 and 3:39/40 when he's in peak shape (from the horse mouth).

Knowing what he's weekly program look like, there is an equal mix of both speed (hills/sprints on the track) and endurance sessions (5x1000m with 30sec rec at 3:05-3:07 for example). He doesn't do much in the way of a long run, preferring to use intervals instead.

JRinaldi wrote:

Bosse believes he could run low 46 and 3:39/40 when he's in peak shape (from the horse mouth).

Knowing what he's weekly program look like, there is an equal mix of both speed (hills/sprints on the track) and endurance sessions (5x1000m with 30sec rec at 3:05-3:07 for example). He doesn't do much in the way of a long run, preferring to use intervals instead.

Thanks for that. Yes, 46 low and 3:39 sound about right. Possibly a bit modest with the 1500m.

polraider wrote:

He ran last 4x400 in 2011. Never serious, only club competitions in Poland, usually just after 800 m. There is no record of time, but the whole relay did times between 3:16 and 3:23, so nothing special.

Please be aware of one more thing - Adam changed coaches in 2012. Present coach, Zbigniew Krol, is more endurance coach than Stanislaw Jaszczak, who coached him before. And Adam's relationship with present coach is more of a partnership then mentor-athlete type of co-working. Adam has a good knowledge of training and probably could be training by himself only. He does a good amount of strenght training but no pure speed. All the polish school is more about technical stuff and power than speed.

Adam himself said to me, that he could probably run 45 sekund. He did 47 second at the end of a session of four repetitions of 400 m during camp in South Africa.

Thanks for your reply. Is that 45 high?

I know that Kipketer ran a 45.4 relay leg (2nd leg) in the European Cup in 97, a week before he equalled Coe's WR. And Coe himself ran a 45.5 relay in 79 and a more impressive 45.6 in 81 from a stumbling start.

I would say both Coe & Kipketer must have been able to run an open 45high at their peak. Kipketer perhaps 45 mid.

Do you think Kzsczot can run as fast as them over 400?

agip wrote:

I'll never understand why more people don't try to even split or run less positive split 800s.

seems a no brainer that if you are a 1:44 guy...you don't go out in 50 seconds. If you do, you will die the last 150.

but that's not how 800 guys think, for the most part. Maybe bosse's win will change that.

How did you run your 800 PB?

polraider wrote:

He ran last 4x400 in 2011. Never serious, only club competitions in Poland, usually just after 800 m. There is no record of time, but the whole relay did times between 3:16 and 3:23, so nothing special.

Please be aware of one more thing - Adam changed coaches in 2012. Present coach, Zbigniew Krol, is more endurance coach than Stanislaw Jaszczak, who coached him before. And Adam's relationship with present coach is more of a partnership then mentor-athlete type of co-working. Adam has a good knowledge of training and probably could be training by himself only. He does a good amount of strenght training but no pure speed. All the polish school is more about technical stuff and power than speed.

Adam himself said to me, that he could probably run 45 sekund. He did 47 second at the end of a session of four repetitions of 400 m during camp in South Africa.

There is the youtube clip of him doing 500m reps with Lewandowski. I always presumed that they trained together (presumably not all the time). Lewandowski does alot of miles. If one did not know them and had to guess on body type alone, you would think Lewandowski was the 400m-800m type while Kszczot on the other hand would make a great miler, just so relaxed, no strains.

Deanouk wrote:

I know that Kipketer ran a 45.4 relay leg (2nd leg) in the European Cup in 97, a week before he equalled Coe's WR. And Coe himself ran a 45.5 relay in 79 and a more impressive 45.6 in 81 from a stumbling start.

I would say both Coe & Kipketer must have been able to run an open 45high at their peak. Kipketer perhaps 45 mid.

Do you think Kzsczot can run as fast as them over 400?

I guess so. Kszczot started as a speed runner and suprised me, how he developed aerobically lately. I never imagined, he could be ready to run 1500m under 3:40. He did 3:38 in this year during polish championships, with no specific training, and going alone from 500 m to go.

5 years ago Lewandowski was a strenght runnner, logging mileage and Kszczot was the fast one, burning high octane intervals. He was really fast. You can compare it to Lewandowski=Cram and Kszczot=Coe in terms of speed. But things change and now Kszczot is aerobically very strong. He said, he didn't loose the speed, but I am not sure about it. But for sure he WAS ready to run 45 secs.

One interesting thing - his coach said, that he peaked year ago and was in lifetime shape in Rio, where he didn't advance to final.

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

There is the youtube clip of him doing 500m reps with Lewandowski. I always presumed that they trained together (presumably not all the time). Lewandowski does alot of miles. If one did not know them and had to guess on body type alone, you would think Lewandowski was the 400m-800m type while Kszczot on the other hand would make a great miler, just so relaxed, no strains.

Interesting obserwation about body type. I never looked at it from this perspective, but I first met Lewandowski 12 years ago, so sometimes it is hard to keep fresh vision. They never trained together, except running camps, where they do some sessions together, but programs are different. Lewandowski comes from a small city in north Poland and Kszczot lives in Lodz, in central.

Lewandowski was running cross country regularly, Kszczot never as a speed type. Lewandowski is trained by his brother, born in 1981 and Adam works with older trainer, Zbigniew Krol. A funny fact is, that Krol wants his runners to be skinny. I read the same thing in a book about John McDonnel and Arkansas runners. I spoke with Krol few years ago about Kszczot and he sais "great talent, but too heavy, to much muscles". If you look at the pictures of Pawel Czapiewski, he was very skinny indeed.

Lewandowski's training partner is Angelika Cichocka, 7th in 1500m in London. And the third Pole in London running 800m, Michal Rozmys, trains with different group than Adam and Marcin - with Krystian Zalewski, the steepler.

I'll never understand why more people don't try to even split or run less positive split 800s.

seems a no brainer that if you are a 1:44 guy...you don't go out in 50 seconds. If you do, you will die the last 150.

but that's not how 800 guys think, for the most part. Maybe bosse's win will change that.

Yeah well even Bosse went neg split. Not that I am complaining, I loathe those jogathon 1500 Finals, but it's odd that every 800 is run neg split and almost every Championship 1500 the reverse.

HEHEEE wrote:

pretty sure bosse could break 46 for 400

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrcnL_SH9J0

Unless coming through in 47.xx through 400 in a 600m doesn't mean that much lol

I laugh at all you guys who think that its a mere blink to go from 47 to sub 46.

I can tell you that 47 is a walk in the park. Sub 46 is fcking hard. At least 50% harder than cruising a 47 flat.

You look at an elegant 800 guy and think he can make the 400 final. Nope. It isn't that easy.

agip wrote:

I'll never understand why more people don't try to even split or run less positive split 800s.

seems a no brainer that if you are a 1:44 guy...you don't go out in 50 seconds. If you do, you will die the last 150.

but that's not how 800 guys think, for the most part. Maybe bosse's win will change that.

Ok here is the formula for Bosse to win:

Run a race where most of the top runners are not there.

Hope the best runner left runs a terrible race.

Some 800 runners are better at more positive splits than others.

The key s to run your race.

Amos should have gone out hard and pushed a pace that the others couldn't keep up with.

JohnR wrote:

Yeah well even Bosse went neg split. Not that I am complaining, I loathe those jogathon 1500 Finals, but it's odd that every 800 is run neg split and almost every Championship 1500 the reverse.

You messed up your argument here by confusing positive and negative splits.

Deanouk wrote:Bosse's pb is 47.5 last year, when his best 800 was 1:43.4. Now that was at end of season, and in that 600m of 1:13 he went through 400m in about 47.5 too, albeit with a bit of drafting benefit from Rudisha.

So he could probably have run a 47 flat last year

is this a total joke ???

you think a 1'13-low guy who splits 47.5 & holds on with a 25.7 !!! is only worth 47-flat for 400 ???

that is most ridiculous post i have ever seen posted here !!!

try more like 45-mid/high for his 400 at the time...