Semenya 1500: carnage awaits

Muscular Women Who Run Fast wrote:

Ninetonite wrote:

No, if you think Castor is a woman you are mistaken. She is ruining women's track.

The size of Semenya is unbelievable! From those track level rail cameras she dwarfs the other gals (you can really see it from that view as opposed to the normal stadium view). Her muscularity is amazing; the arms, shoulders, thighs, etc...she's more muscular than most of the men's 1500 competitors.

+1

She???s built like an NFL linebacker..Lawrence Taylor, maybe.

Dutee's duty wrote:

Did anybody notice that Dutee Chand, finished second to last in her 100m heat in today with a very normal time of 12"07 ?

We don't know her actual condition, do we? In simplistic terms there is a continuum of intersex conditions. Is she even intersex on any level? Maybe she is just a lady that makes a lot of T somehow?

Maybe absent the high T she would be a non athlete entirely. Obviously High T is not going to turn a zero into a hero.

The only way to stop this lunacy is for the women to boycott and refuse to race when Caster enters.

The IAAF would then need to deal with this once and for all.

It is rather interesting as to the fact that it was an Indian sprinter's case that actually led to the rule being changed:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/28/sports/international/dutee-chand-female-sprinter-with-high-male-hormone-level-wins-right-to-compete.html?_r=0

In the case of Dutee Chand, nobody is worked up about it, because she did not (and had no chance to) take a medal away from anyone. She did indeed qualify for the Olympic Games in the 100m by running under the standard of 11.30 (her PB is 11.24). But in the opening heat of the 100m at the Games, she ran a disappointing 11.69. When interviewed she said she had a 36 hour flight from India to Brazil and this combined with the grand stage of the Games made her nervous and resulted in a poor performance.

People cheered for her when she qualified (as did I) because it was the first time since 1984 that a woman from India qualified for the Olympic Games in a track event. Yes this is true.

Also Dutee Chand's case of hyperandrogenism is in the category of AIS (Androgen insensitivity syndrome). AIS people have a mutation which prevents testosterone (T) from being absorbed by the body; hence there will be plenty of T in the blood, but virtually none in other cells. Those with AIS usually look like any other woman from the outside. Since there is no T uptake in the body, there is no athletic advantage from the excess T in their blood.

Now lets discuss the official statement released to the press by the Court of Arbitration for Sport :

http://www.tas-cas.org/fileadmin/user_upload/Media_Release_3759_FINAL.pdf

They state:

"In the absence of such evidence, the CAS Panel was unable to conclude that hyperandrogenic female athletes may benefit from such a significant performance advantage".

Well, in my humble opinion, this was a classic case of the Court of Arbitration for Sport 'kicking the can down the road'. They basically are saying 'look we don't know' so lets re-visit this in two years. Or more likely 'we don't want to make a decision on this right now, because this is too controversial to tackle'.

C'mon really? You don't have any qualified Endocrinologist on your panel who can tell you that the OTHER type of Hyperandrogenism is Five alpha reductase deficiency (5-ARD)?

You don't know if higher levels of testosterone improve athletic performance in 5-ARD? Of course they do! What evidence are they requiring? Here is the evidence --> Semenya is runnning 1:55 without his testosterone lowering meds. When he was on them, he was running close to 2:00.

Why?

Because those born with 5-ARD have a mutation which prevents the creation of dihydrotestosterone, or DHT, in the body. DHT is a powerful androgen which triggers the formation of male genitalia. Thus, 5-ARD individuals (like Semenya, Niyonsaba and Wambui) are often assigned female gender. Unlike AIS people, however, those with 5-ARD are affected by the T in their system and become much more masculine at puberty. This can give them a very large athletic advantage over other women.

Caster Semenya chooses to compete, knowing that his higher levels of testosterone are giving him a clear advantage. He has refused to normalise his testosterone levels. That . . . is a clear case of the violation of fair play.

Or concede the gold. Wait at the start line and begin running 15 seconds after the gun goes off.

Dutee's duty wrote:

Dutee Chand has hyperandrogenism, she is running in a more power oriented event than Semenya yet she's not as competitive .

Can somebody tell me why her high T level does not give her an edge in a very anaerobic, power oriented event such as the 100m ?

.

Because Chand is not a particularly fast person anyway. Plenty of guys surely have high T levels and can't break 15 seconds.

You are giving T all the credit for ability. It enhances ability, it doesn't create it.

Whatthewhatthewhat wrote:

jasonkiddnba wrote:

Folks, it is actually very simple: The unfair advantage that Caster Semenya has can be safely taken away from him by surgically removing his endogenous testicles. That would bring his testosterone levels back down to completely normal levels. He has refused to do that.

Don't be an ass. She is a SHE, not a he. She goes by she. She also has female genitalia. I get you trynto be cute by showing the difference between her and the other girls because of her testosterone levels but she's not a man. She doesn't have a penis.

I think people are speculating, but ive heard people say that her mangled genitals would have had to have surgery at birth to form a vagina. I havent heard anything that makes me think she isnt a man with a birth defect vs a women with a birth defect

Whatthewhatthewhat wrote:

jasonkiddnba wrote:

Folks, it is actually very simple: The unfair advantage that Caster Semenya has can be safely taken away from him by surgically removing his endogenous testicles. That would bring his testosterone levels back down to completely normal levels. He has refused to do that.

Don't be an ass. She is a SHE, not a he. She goes by she. She also has female genitalia. I get you trynto be cute by showing the difference between her and the other girls because of her testosterone levels but she's not a man. She doesn't have a penis.

Oh, so now you need a penis to be a man?!?! Caster doesn't have a penis so she's woman, but this person has a vagina and just gave birth and is somehow a man.

If you need a penis to be a man, then how the hell did this "guy" give birth? And if the birth mom/dad can be a man without a penis, then so can Caster, who has internal testicles, something "birthdad" doesn't even have. Bruce Jenner walked around with a penis, but was a woman because he wore a dress and painted his nails!?!?

What a bunch of nonsense this is.... liberal losers making it up as they go along.

Lol I bet you're a liberal too.

one of those girls should kick that pastard in the ball

look at bishop from canada or klosterhofen of germany they 're little girls running against that hard on

I have Faith that Kipyegon can take down that guy in the final.

Casters toilet awaits carnage after a celebratory Taco Bell meal

Liberalism illogical wrote: If you need a penis to be a man, then how the hell did this "guy" give birth? And if the birth mom/dad can be a man without a penis, then so can Caster, who has internal testicles, something "birthdad" doesn't even have. Bruce Jenner walked around with a penis, but was a woman because he wore a dress and painted his nails!?!?

What a bunch of nonsense this is.... liberal losers making it up as they go along.

You are mixing up two different things: (1) Semenya is (allegedly) intersex and has an objective medical condition that she was born with, which is objectively having physical features typical for both men and women. (2) Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner and transgender people normally are objectively one biological sex or the other but identify with a different gender. The first is objectively a biological status and the second is objectively a psychological status.

I agree, this is pure political correctness ruining women's sports.

All universities worship at the alter of political correctness. If the women runners want to have a career in coaching, then they have to be very careful how they treat this uncomfortable situation.

falconrunner22 wrote:

All universities worship at the alter of political correctness. If the women runners want to have a career in coaching, then they have to be very careful how they treat this uncomfortable situation.

Sad but true. It was a genuinely strange sight in the 1500 first round watching Semenya running behind Kate Grace. It was like the movie where the girl is being chased by King Kong. Anyone unfamiliar with this situation watching this has got to ask him/her self - why is a man running in a women's race?

falconrunner22 wrote:

I agree, this is pure political correctness ruining women's sports.

It's not ruining anything. Typical overreaction, just like Trump takes advantage of every day. He knows his geese will take any fearful topic he hands them and pretend it's ruining society.

The Semenya situation will be very, very rare. I may not be thrilled about it right now, largely because I'm a Melissa Bishop fan and in her late prime she's stuck where even her absolute best can't quite medal. But I'm not going to be stupid enough to claim we'll see a run of these type of examples. I was a teenager in the '70s when there was similar paranoia after Renee Richards showed up. You actually had people asserting that one mediocre male tennis player after another would have a sex change and try to dominate women's tennis.

Probability wasn't exactly a societal strength at that point and it's exponentially worse now, since fear is so popular. People are willing to take the .3% likelihood and make it 75% on one topic after another.

Semenya has shown absolutely no class or morals whatsoever. Look at him showing off after his races, flexing his muscles and brushing off imaginary dust off his shoulders. Sticking out his tongue for the cameras etc. 



Also, Semenya knows that he has ten times the level of testosterone than the average female. If Semenya had any morals, ethics or class, he would normalize his testosterone levels with medication or surgery . . . or quit the sport . . . or compete in the mens category. But Semenya won’t do any of these. Semenya has every right to compete if he normalizes his testosterone levels (either by ruling or by personal choice). Otherwise, Semenya does not belong in these womens races. It is a travesty of justice, occurring in the name of bullshit political correctness.



How can Semenya even be proud of his Olympic medal? Is that really how African nations want to win Olympic medals? By finding Y chromosome hermaphrodites from rural villages and throwing them into the women races? 



Semenya has no ovaries, no uterus, no breasts and no secondary sexual characteristics of a woman. Semenya married a woman. I don’t see how on earth Semenya fits the description of a woman and why on earth Semenya should be allowed to compete against normal women. 



This truly is the end of women sports. In a few years if this trend continues, all world class competitions will be taken over by hermaphrodite athletes and regular woman will not stand a chance of winning, no matter how hard they train.



You have these PC white men on trackie.ca trying to raise their status and reputation in their AWMDRF (all white male distance runner fraternity). They are praising Semenya and saying that Semenya belongs in the same category as 'the greats'. It makes me want to vomit. 



I think trying to raise your reputation by being super politically correct among the AWMDRF (all white male distance runner fraternity) is not only clearly disingenuous, but really just empty talk. Such talk is cheap.



Put your words into action and recruit some minority runners, or better yet, some intersex runners into your all white running clubs, then we will see if you really are truly supportive of such athletes. I have not seen this happen since I started running in Ontario three decades ago . . . and likely never will.



I personally think the only time the AWMDRF has any contact with a woman of colour is when they pour a bottle of Aunt Jemima maple syrup over their morning pancakes.



But alas, they just report your post to Adam Stacey and he conveniently deletes it and then sends an email stating ‘your post does not contribute to the forum’. What he really should say is ‘your post is not PC enough for our AWMDRF forum’. All this in Canada - a country that (supposedly) has freedom of speech in their bill of rights. Not anymore thanks to good ‘ol Justin Trudeau.