does the workout that brenda martinez posted on her twitter seem shady?

I got confused between another workout she posted last week that is questionable. This 400m workout was on a track.

1. 52

2. 53

3. 57

4. 41 (300)

Rest time not indicated.

With the depth of the 800 this year I would be shocked if she made the final.

So you admit to being an idiot!

Ghrelin wrote:

hahano wrote:

You are mistaken. We aren't comparing workouts here. We are comparing a workout to a race. There is no way she ran under 20 minutes for 4 miles in a tempo run and then could only manage 15:40 in a race. It wasn't tactical either.

Also, let's use our brains here and maybe figure that Bekele only has a two mile PB of 8:13 because it's run so sparingly.

Have another theory?

Downhill or inaccurate course, pretty likely if it was on the road. Alternative, if it was on the track she probably did 6400m and not 4 mile.

What was the rest on the 400s? It's not a crazy workout with a lot of rest.

ironside wrote:

Let's use our brains. Are you accusing Bekele of not being in shape in 2004 when he set his PB in two mile? Let's use our brains. Are you accusing Bekele of not giving 100% effort when he set is two mile PB? There are obvious reasons why females age 13 to 48 may not be super consistent in sports. Let's use our brains. Do you have another reason for not liking Brenda Martinez? This sure feels like attacks from one to four days ago on another US female runner.

Dude you're nuts. I guess I am accusing Bekele of not attacking the arbitrary 3218m distance in 2004.

He went through 3200 in 8:06 in his world record of 12:37. That's like an 8:09 two mile, and he had another mile to go! Obviously his two mile PB is not really faster than his 5k pace in an ideal world.

ironside wrote:

So you admit to being an idiot!

Nope. That other workout I was referring to is just as bogus as this one.

hmmmmsketch wrote:

First 400 in 52.89, second in 53.95, 3rd in 57.23 plus a 41.23 300

Im dont have a great understanding of whats good in womens workouts, but doesnt this one seem pretty rediculous for someone whos only ran a 1:58.5 this year?? Like for example allyson felix just ran 49.66 for a world lead, and brendas first rep was only 3.23 seconds behind that, the world lead for the men rn is 43.6 , so thats like a dude blasting a 46.8 on the first rep, then coming back with a 47 high then a 50.xx before finishing with a 36 second 300, which is a pretty insane workout. You guys think she really ran it??

Your writing is horrible, man.

It is really a crazy workout with no purpose. I doubt a coach like Joe Vigil set up something like that. ;)

The workout is very similar to the one Berian did last year -- 46, 47. And Martinez is also a 1500 runner so the extra work afterwards. Handler coaches both.

3 x 400 + 300 is okey as a repetition at or slightly sub 800m racepace....but not that close to 400m best time. I think it`s a joke to get people to have something to chat about......no way Joe Vigil set up something like that for a 1.58.5 800m runner.

ironside wrote:

Let's use our brains. Are you accusing Bekele of not being in shape in 2004 when he set his PB in two mile? Let's use our brains. Are you accusing Bekele of not giving 100% effort when he set is two mile PB? .

I think what he's saying is that a PB in a 2 mile race can be relatively meaningless since it's rarely run in any major competition, nor does it hold much significance as a competition distance. Therefore a 2 mile PB is not a good benchmark to compare with other meaningful pbs, such as an 800 PB, or a 1 mile PB, etc.

One of my 800m runners once did 4 x 400m at 53,52,52,50 with 3 min rest....a male runner with 47 sec 400m best time. Then he was 6.5,3 sec from best 400m time . If we compare it with the lady she should run 4 x400m at 58,57,57,55 sec to do a correct repetition for 800m.

The Wizard

Seriously, even when I was in 49/1:54 shape I couldn't imagine doing this workout without big-time rest. That rest must have been like 10 minutes between 400's. She might just be really aerobically fit, and if this workout is real, then I'd expect her to be in medal contention.

After watching BMart run a 2:00 Time trial in November and follow up by running multiple 2:02s indoor I believe her workout. Big Bears workouts are just a different animal, they're just impressive feats with no meaning outside of practice.

I've been on a team where we've done 2 to 3 all out 300s with minimal recovery. Guys who had never broken 50 ran 34-35 and a few ran 33-34. Even with all of that upside of 8-10 guys only 2 proceeded to break 50 that season.

You can have a workout better than a race when the workout and other stuff makes you so tired that you aren't fresh for the race. This happens. Without going all out I've done just three seconds a mile slower than my 5k best over a four mile tempo in a heavy training period averaging sixteen a day and with a 22 miler the previous day. Obviously, I was in shape to smash my 5k pr (was about ten seconds off of it at 5000m (this was on a track) and then picked up the pace) and just needed to taper and run it fresh. If she'd been fresh the day of the supposed sub 5 pace 4M, she could have raced low 15 for 5k. Would it actually be that surprising for a low 4 minute 1500m runner to be capable of running low 15 or even sub 15? I know that Joe Vigil has been said to sometimes pump up his athletes' confidence by telling them that they ran farther or faster in a workout than they actually did. Now, this 3x400, + 1 300 workout is incredible for an 800/1500 woman. It is possible the road was downhill. She almost certainly had a flying start. Maybe it was short. But what it suggests to me is that Brenda could smash her pr when fresh if she took the first 400m a lot harder than usual, e.g. 56-57.

Joe Vigil often "adjusts" the final time on workout repetitions. Usually based on factors such as: surface, wind, temperature, and altitude. I've seen him adjust a low-25 second 200 on the road down to 23.mid. Sometimes he even shortens the rep, and calls it the full thing.

I would not put much stock in any reported Brenda Martinez workouts. I wish her the best but I expect about the same performance she always gives in championship finals... lackluster.

COACH J.S å ä ö wrote:

One of my 800m runners once did 4 x 400m at 53,52,52,50 with 3 min rest....a male runner with 47 sec 400m best time. Then he was 6.5,3 sec from best 400m time . If we compare it with the lady she should run 4 x400m at 58,57,57,55 sec to do a correct repetition for 800m.

The Wizard

Yeah, you are full of it. I like how you had your first post deleted in this thread, btw.

If your guy can do 4x400 on 3m rest at an avg of 52 then that would predict sub 1:44. The classic 800 workout is 4x400 on 4 or 5m rest. And we all know you didn't coach anybody who is world class...

The guy who did it is "The running watchman". You can check at youtube where he talks about me as his coach. His problem has been that he worked from 18.00 to 06.00 every night and tried to fulfill his great talent at 800/1500m in the day.....he mostly got about 2 hours sleep every 24 hours. Even this lack of sleep he once last year was leading from the start until 90 m left in 800m race that was won in 1.45.7 in Kenya. If he have had the possibility to train fulltime from 5-6 years back I am sure he had been at least a 1.44 runner.

But what now is up is that he don`t work as a watchman anymore . He can now train fulltime and I coach him for the longer races now. So far it looks very good ......a little example 20 x 400m at 62 sec and 7 x 1600m at 4.33-4.34 min up at 1800m altitude in Nairobi.

The Wizard

forgot to tell that 7 x 1600m at 4.33-4.34 min are threshold cruise intervals.