Ranking WI collegiate distance programs

We are Marquette wrote:

Nelson is an amazing coach, we have had Big East champion track teams.

**watered down Big East champion track teams

FIXED because theyd never win the old Big East

As for Thomas Breitbach...who the FARK is Thomas Breitbach?

You return everyone from a distant 5th place team in a weaker conference. Number one Alec Miller is done. Stick a fork in him! The rest of the scorers are mediocre cross country runners in a conference that falls from respectable to mediocrity after the first 8-10 runners. The Marquette displacers would have better luck at a highway stop bent over with their pants down. These guys would never make a legit "D1 team".

We are Marquette wrote:

Golden Seagull wrote:

Marquette University is where wannabe D1s go to die... and shave the sides of their heads to form goofy looking encino man / pauly shore 90s haircuts.

You can do all the hating on Marquette you want, but the fact of the matter is we are the next best after Madison. We return everyone from last year who ran on our championship season roster, which was already better than teams like Lax and UWEC.

Nelson is an amazing coach, we have had Big East champion track teams and school records under him. If those results aren't enough for you, maybe you've noticed that UW-Parkside's coach Tom Breitbach learned a lot under him as an assistant because they are getting better.

you are delusional. keep drinking the "we are D1" koolaid. you and you're team are really not any good.

Fan of WI running wrote:

The Wisconsin state schools are a real deal if you're a Wisconsin resident. Rather than get a partial scholarship or no scholarship at a big school, many choose the state schools. Even though they are D3 with no scholarships, you are money ahead, as opposed to a partial scholarship at a D1.

I haven't looked up the figures, but I can't imagine the cost is significantly different between the state schools. If we assume that is true (or reasonably close), why wouldn't you run at any of the athletic scholarship giving schools over D3. At worst, you are a walk on at UWGB/UWP/UWM, paying the same money as D3, but you're competing against better competition with a chance to earn a scholarship. So why do kids (usually D1-D2 type talent) go to the WIAC instead??

Old Harrier wrote:

Fan of WI running wrote:

The Wisconsin state schools are a real deal if you're a Wisconsin resident. Rather than get a partial scholarship or no scholarship at a big school, many choose the state schools. Even though they are D3 with no scholarships, you are money ahead, as opposed to a partial scholarship at a D1.

I haven't looked up the figures, but I can't imagine the cost is significantly different between the state schools. If we assume that is true (or reasonably close), why wouldn't you run at any of the athletic scholarship giving schools over D3. At worst, you are a walk on at UWGB/UWP/UWM, paying the same money as D3, but you're competing against better competition with a chance to earn a scholarship. So why do kids (usually D1-D2 type talent) go to the WIAC instead??

UW-Madison estimates an in-state cost of attending the school (on-campus), at $25.6k.

UW-LaCrosse puts the same estimate at $17.2k

In my home state, our primary DI 'research university' is similarly 25-30% more expensive than the regional DIII state colleges. If you're going for an engineering type major you'd be a fool not to pay the extra and go to the research university, since its programs are MUCH more highly rated. On the other hand, one of the regional DIII state colleges has more highly rated nursing, education, and a few other liberal arts/humanities majors, meaning you're be a fool to pay the extra money for lower quality education.

Athletically, a meaningful minority of athletes who are at the partial scholarship/useful walk-on levels of performance are going to prioritize a good DIII program for reasons like:

not wanting running to be a job

the ability to be a big fish in a small pond

being a varsity/top-7 within a year or two or right away

prioritizing academics

stable team/coaching environment (compared to the coaching carousel of many DI/DII programs. Most of the top national DIII programs have coaches who are or are on their way to holding the same position for 20+ years)

staying closer to home for whatever personal reasons

Sorry to poke some holes here

-take a look at this link:

-Kline at Green Bay has been there 28 years, Corfeld at Milwaukee has been there 28 years, Byrne at Madison has been there for almost 10 years

-plenty of high profile DI runners regularly maintain a 3.5 and up GPA

-Any sub 1:58/4:27/9:35/16:15 kid could be a top 7 contributor immediately at any school besides UW

-There is a cap of 20 hours for practice/competition per week for all divisions

Now there could be a number of factors as to why the WIAC is so strong and pulls kids away from D1/D2, but I don't know of another state where the D3's are as competitive or in some cases better than the D1/D2 teams.

Why wouldn't you want to compete against the best and get your tuition paid for?

Not buying that wrote:

Sorry to poke some holes here

-take a look at this link:

https://uwhelp.wisconsin.edu/pay-for-college/tuition-costs/

-Kline at Green Bay has been there 28 years, Corfeld at Milwaukee has been there 28 years, Byrne at Madison has been there for almost 10 years

-plenty of high profile DI runners regularly maintain a 3.5 and up GPA

-Any sub 1:58/4:27/9:35/16:15 kid could be a top 7 contributor immediately at any school besides UW

-There is a cap of 20 hours for practice/competition per week for all divisions

Now there could be a number of factors as to why the WIAC is so strong and pulls kids away from D1/D2, but I don't know of another state where the D3's are as competitive or in some cases better than the D1/D2 teams.

Why wouldn't you want to compete against the best and get your tuition paid for?

Not sure what holes you're poking...

Tuition /= cost of attending.

I'm a coach with 10+ years on the job, and I listed reasons, most of which are recruited athletes' reasons, why a meaningful minority choose to go DIII when they could walk on or get a partial scholarship to a DI program.

Plenty of DIII kids maintain 2.1 gpas too.The reality of academics depends entirely on the individual program, but the perception of many athletes and their parents is that a DI athlete will be expected to put at least equal effort into athletics and academics, while at DIII they perceive academics will take priority over athletics.

There tends to be very little movement among head coaches at 'elite' DIII programs. I'm sure there are plenty of examples of long tenured coaches at specific 'mid-major' DI schools, but as a general trend, there is far more movement and instability at those types of programs than at 'elite' DIII programs.

A kid with the times you listed wouldn't be a top-7 in pretty much any NCAA level DIII program. If the rest of the Non-UW-Madison DI/DII programs are that much worse than Marquette, the conversation should be around why they are so weak.

Who ya got? wrote:

This topic has come up on a number of threads over the years on letsrun, dyestat, and tracktalk.

The Badgers are unquestionably #1 in the state. The state has 4 DI schools, 1 DII school, the WIAC and numerous other DIII schools. Who is #2 through #15 and why?

West Indian?

1) St Croix (surprisingly)

2) Grenada

3) St Vincent

4) Trinidad

5) Bahamas

6) Haiti

7) Antigua

8) Guyana

9) St Thomas

ex-D1 athlete wrote:

Nobody except the naive in-staters from the North go to UWM. Every year a group of incoming go-getters seek to break the less than stellar Panther tradition and every year Corfeld kills off their will power. I have seen so many prospective talents realize they got duped and end up quitting or transferring out by junior year. Or they just accept what happened and try to make a lifestyle out of it.

Looks like we have a disgruntled Panther alum. How about you take a little responsibility for your results. Corfeld has some 50 conference titles and has changed kids lives forever by giving them an opportunity to compete at the D1 level and take away the burden of paying college tuition. Sorry that you sucked in college man, but that doesn't mean it's Corfeld's fault.

Mustang Track wrote:

ex-D1 athlete wrote:

Nobody except the naive in-staters from the North go to UWM. Every year a group of incoming go-getters seek to break the less than stellar Panther tradition and every year Corfeld kills off their will power. I have seen so many prospective talents realize they got duped and end up quitting or transferring out by junior year. Or they just accept what happened and try to make a lifestyle out of it.

Looks like we have a disgruntled Panther alum. How about you take a little responsibility for your results. Corfeld has some 50 conference titles and has changed kids lives forever by giving them an opportunity to compete at the D1 level and take away the burden of paying college tuition. Sorry that you sucked in college man, but that doesn't mean it's Corfeld's fault.

Nope. Knew better than to go to UWM. Corfeld is a terrible coach. Everybody knows that.

Or what he is saying is true.... and you are in denial? I won't make assumptions though. If you assume, you make an ASS out of U and ME

ex-D1 athlete wrote:

Mustang Track wrote:

Looks like we have a disgruntled Panther alum. How about you take a little responsibility for your results. Corfeld has some 50 conference titles and has changed kids lives forever by giving them an opportunity to compete at the D1 level and take away the burden of paying college tuition. Sorry that you sucked in college man, but that doesn't mean it's Corfeld's fault.

Nope. Knew better than to go to UWM. Corfeld is a terrible coach. Everybody knows that.

Well you sure have a lot of negative things to say about Milwaukee and Marquette. Maybe you just weren't good enough to make either team.

Pre-Season Rankings

1. Wisconsin

2a. Marquette- Returns everyone, will be top 10 at regionals

2b. La Crosse- Returns everyone, will win WIAC, will finish top 3 at nats

4. Eau Claire- Strong top 3, but has no depth on paper, hopefully they bring in solid freshmen

5. Parkside- 2nd year with new coach, returns an all american and 2 freshmen who ran under 15 for 5k

6. Cardinal Stritch- Foreign Talent

7. Milwaukee- Down year in the WIAC

8. Oshkosh- Banking on Eamon recruiting some gems

9. Stevens Point- 5th at regional last year, return a bunch of guys

10. Platteville- Big void after losing La Mere

11. Stout- Maybe recent history will inspire someone on the team?

12. Green Bay- Get out of tuition free card

13. Carthage- They actually aren't that bad... For Carthage

14. Whitewater- How did this happen?

15. River Falls- Couldn't think of any other teams

List looks a lot differently from a historical perspective, more like:

Tier 1. Wisconsin

Tier 2. La Crosse/Oshkosh/Eau Claire/Marquette

Tier 3. Stevens Point/Platteville/Whitewater/Stout/Parkside

I want to see an xc race at 8k MQ vs LAX vs EC vs Oshkosh and then a 4x800/4xMile in the spring.

I doubt MQ wins any races. They are not that good.

Alright, so most of commentary on here consists of D3 rocks and the scholarship schools suck. But why?

Coaching? Facilities? Funding? Culture? Location? Other things?

What are the reasons for success and failure for these schools? Insight?

Wii runner wrote:

1.) Wisconsin

2.) Lacrosse

3.) Ian La Mere

4.) Eau Claire

5.) Marquette

6.) Oshkosh

7.) Point

8.) Parkside

If Ian La Mere is a university, it's the college of hard knocks.

1 Madison

2 Lax

3 Eau Claire

4 Oshkosh

5 Marquette

6 Platteville

7 Parkside

8 Point

9 Stout

10 Milwaukee

The real rankings wrote:

1 Madison

2 Lax

3 Eau Claire

4 Oshkosh

5 Marquette

6 Platteville

7 Parkside

8 Point

9 Stout

10 Milwaukee

This is actually pretty good.

Lets face it, the list should be

1. Madison, 2. Marquette, 3. Milwaukee, 4. Green Bay (if they added track), 5. Parkside, then WIAC schools.

Here are the reasons why it is not this way.

Marquette: Mike Nelson is not a very good coach. He has squandered talent (he recruits decently) for years. Yes he has had a bright spot here and there (Hackett, Winter, Agnew, Bolgert) but in general they have under performed. In 10 seasons at the helm their best xc conference finish is 5th and best regional finish is 8th. They have been top 10 in the region only twice. That is not very good. Their culture is not one of a driven and successful program and it starts from the top because Nelson doesn't have a winning attitude. It doesn't help that they don't have an indoor facility or have any parks around them to train at but Big East basketball should give them a leg up in recruiting and monetary resources, but apparently that hasn't done much to offset Nelson.

UWM: Pete Corfeld is ignorance personified. Say what you will about the 50 conference championships-- he coaches the distance team, which has never produced a cross country title (either gender) in 24 years of horizon league competition. He is completely clueless and an ego maniac. His recruiting classes are comparable to the bottom half of the wiac, except those schools get more out of their athletes. His only successful athletes either transfer out before its too late or are failed P5 athletes who transfer in for free tuition. Tax payers should file a law suit against this guy for embezzling 29 years worth of salary and pension for pretending to coach.

Green Bay: Coach Kline is a $55-60k rec counselor. They don't have a track team, so they will never be competitive until they add that or at least drop Kline and have a real coach.

Parkside: They are getting a lot better. They have had some recent success and have a chance to make something great. Having the national cross country course is a big plus. The big negative is that you have to live in Kenosha...

The solution is easy for Marquette, UWM, and Green Bay. It comes down to coaching. If those programs ever want to be successful, then the AD's at those schools need to dump these guys and get someone in there who actually knows what they are doing.