yeah, but that was not a prime bekele. Heath against a 2003-2009 bekele wouldn't stand a chance...
yeah, but that was not a prime bekele. Heath against a 2003-2009 bekele wouldn't stand a chance...
wruuong wrote:
???????????? wrote:Bekele is the greatest overall long distance runner of all time, but I'd probably give his XC career the edge just because the difference between him and the #2 all time on the track (Geb) was fairly close, whereas the distance between him and #2 all time XC is enormous.
Na dude. Geb has him completely beat for GOAT title. Bekele lowered the records by a couples seconds. Geb lowered them by like 20.
He still lowered them though.
Both are more impressive than anyone else at either one
He was running away with that race in Mombasa as well when he dropped out, he was also running back to back days short and long course and dominating.
It's to bad he didn't run more 5ks at worlds because he definitely would have a few more titles on the track
Former Liberal wrote:
Geb would have easily won the 5000 in Athens, but his feet were destroyed by competing the 10000 on the rock hard track.
That's funny, because Kenenisa -- the guy you're comparing Geb to here -- also ran that 10,000 before running the 5,000 heats and final, and did pretty well (silver).
That aside, there's no way that Geb, who hadn't been serious about the 5,000 in 6 years, was going to beat YOUNG Eliud Kipchoge AND YOUNG Kenenisa (whom he just lost to in the 10,000) AND already-gold-in-his-pocket El Guerrouj in Athens in 2004. No. Nope. No chance.
Easy wrote:
lazyafternoons wrote:Mo Farah gets beat by Garret heath. Cross Country does not have the talent it used to. Bekele destroyed people like Tadese and kipchoge
Garett Heath beat Kiprop and Bekele over XC.
Not a fair comparison. Kiprop's wheelhouse stops at the mile, but that was a 4k. Kenenisa would have been in marathon training -- the XC race was January 12, 2014, and Kenenisa won the Paris Marathon on April 6th, 2014 -- but that XC race was, again, a 4k.
Both are more impressive than anyone else at either one
He was running away with that race in Mombasa as well when he dropped out, he was also running back to back days short and long course and dominating.
It's to bad he didn't run more 5ks at worlds because he definitely would have a few more titles on the track[/quote]
^^^^^
I'm actually now convinced of this
Just watched much of the mombasa race. He actually really went for it in the race, and besides his major mistake of miscalculating laps or whatever, he seemed to surge pretty strongly (just too early). Obviously after being so dominant for so long, a anything besides 1st place had little meaning for him, plus Ethiopia ran poorly in general that year, so he probably didn't feel much of a national duty to finish.
Interesting, this is one of the only times (besides his recent marathon runs) that he seems human. Most all of his other races he ran like a machine - in both track and cross country.
Interesting article on bekele's reaction to mombasa:
https://www.iaaf.org/news/news/after-depressing-mombasa-bekele-looks-ahead-t
Progression isn't linear dude.
What if I break a silly high school record in the the 800m like 2:08 and run 2:00?
Then next year some guy runs 1:58? Is 2 flat the superior mark just because there used to be a 2:08 time before?
Of course not, time is measurable and objective. Bekele wins.
lolllzz wrote:
Easy wrote:Garett Heath beat Kiprop and Bekele over XC.
Not a fair comparison. Kiprop's wheelhouse stops at the mile, but that was a 4k. Kenenisa would have been in marathon training -- the XC race was January 12, 2014, and Kenenisa won the Paris Marathon on April 6th, 2014 -- but that XC race was, again, a 4k.
Oh I see. Bekele and Kiprop have excuses which are perfectly accepted on Letsrun, but Farah does not?
It was exactly the same situation. Neither Farah nor Bekele nor Kiprop were training for or preparing for the XC. Garrett Heath was and won. There is no shame in that in any case.
Don't be hypocritical. You can't berate Farah for losing in exactly the same way that your heroes did.
Rockstar Games wrote:
Progression isn't linear dude.
What if I break a silly high school record in the the 800m like 2:08 and run 2:00?
Then next year some guy runs 1:58? Is 2 flat the superior mark just because there used to be a 2:08 time before?
Of course not, time is measurable and objective. Bekele wins.
Ridiculous statement. Do you believe Rudisha is inherently better than Kipketer because one ran 0.2% faster than the other one?
Who would win in a race? Nobody can tell you. It is definitely 50/50. Same with 12:37 vs 12:39.
The runner with the faster PR at that level really doesn't mean much. Surely Farah and El G and Lagat and Kipchoge have taught you that?
true brit wrote:
???????????? wrote:Bekele is the greatest overall long distance runner of all time, but I'd probably give his XC career the edge just because the difference between him and the #2 all time on the track (Geb) was fairly close, whereas the distance between him and #2 all time XC is enormous.
Good way of thinking about it. Difficult to compare Geb and Bekele though as Geb was striding into uncharted territory, while Bekele had a benchmark and improved Geb's WRs by 'just' 2 and 5 seconds respectively (5 & 10).
Personally I think the way in which Bekele utterly dominated world XC was the most impressive part of his storied running career. The guy would cruise with the pack and simply decide when he wanted to win. Usually with 2K left to run he was gone or going. On the track he was beaten every now and agin, despite his incredible record at WC 5000 & 10,000. Also despite his 3.32 best he never really contested over 1500m/mile, whereas Geb notched up an indoor 1500m title. On the country he was unstoppable - unless he miscounted laps like in Mombassa!
Bekele is the GOAT for sure.
I agree that his XC career was much more impressive. Farah's championship record on the track is just as impressive as Bekele's. But winning the World XC double five years in a row against all the top runners was remarkable.
And don't forget that in his debut he not only won silver but won the junior title as well.
lolllzz wrote:
Former Liberal wrote:Geb would have easily won the 5000 in Athens, but his feet were destroyed by competing the 10000 on the rock hard track.
That's funny, because Kenenisa -- the guy you're comparing Geb to here -- also ran that 10,000 before running the 5,000 heats and final, and did pretty well (silver).
That aside, there's no way that Geb, who hadn't been serious about the 5,000 in 6 years, was going to beat YOUNG Eliud Kipchoge AND YOUNG Kenenisa (whom he just lost to in the 10,000) AND already-gold-in-his-pocket El Guerrouj in Athens in 2004. No. Nope. No chance.
I think the OP meant Atlanta, not Athens. I was at Atlanta, and this was the excuse Geb used at the time for pulling out of the 5000.
He's better because he ran a better mark than Kipketer's WR 3 times: Berlin, Rieti and London by himself. Also has a lot more titles.
It would be a close battle it's true, but why would marginal gains be an argument for the one who has the worst time? I don't get it.
Mombasa has got to be some kind blemish. I was both thrilled and ashamed that Kenyans were going crazy with excitement and happiness when he dropped out instead of showing a little compassion.
Easy wrote:
Oh I see. Bekele and Kiprop have excuses which are perfectly accepted on Letsrun, but Farah does not?
It was exactly the same situation. Neither Farah nor Bekele nor Kiprop were training for or preparing for the XC. Garrett Heath was and won. There is no shame in that in any case.
Don't be hypocritical. You can't berate Farah for losing in exactly the same way that your heroes did.
Was Farah training for a marathon? If not, it is not hypocritical. Kiprop is an 800/1500 guy. Is Farah an 800/1500 guy? If not, it is not hypocritical.
Clarified wrote:
Easy wrote:Oh I see. Bekele and Kiprop have excuses which are perfectly accepted on Letsrun, but Farah does not?
It was exactly the same situation. Neither Farah nor Bekele nor Kiprop were training for or preparing for the XC. Garrett Heath was and won. There is no shame in that in any case.
Don't be hypocritical. You can't berate Farah for losing in exactly the same way that your heroes did.
Was Farah training for a marathon? If not, it is not hypocritical. Kiprop is an 800/1500 guy. Is Farah an 800/1500 guy? If not, it is not hypocritical.
Yes. Farah was in winter training for the half marathon world champs.
Kiprop was a great XC runner as a junior. The race was only 4k. He ran 7:42 for 3k at 17. He should be able to beat Garrett Heath.
Bekele has an outstanding XC career and put himself forwards as an XC guru. He still lost to Garrett Heath.
Garrett Heath beats Bekele - Bekele is GOAT
Garrett Heath beats Farah - Heath is GOAT