cali boy wrote:
Older Student wrote:Always had a few under 5:00 for the mile huh? What school is that?
Small high school school in the most beautiful part of California. A little north of the area you'd read descriptions of in Steinbeck novels.
Initial but not exhaustive research shows 0 teams outside of GO in CA having multiple sub 5:00 milers both of the last two years let alone "always".
What would you consider a slew? 10? 20?
Older Student wrote:
cali boy wrote:Small high school school in the most beautiful part of California. A little north of the area you'd read descriptions of in Steinbeck novels.
Initial but not exhaustive research shows 0 teams outside of GO in CA having multiple sub 5:00 milers both of the last two years let alone "always".
What would you consider a slew? 10? 20?
I haven't been there in a couple years; last time we had two under 5 was probably 2013 or 2014. The top 7 XC would usually all be 5:30 or faster--this wasn't a 4000 kid school, they were lucky if they had 20 distance girls regularly showing up to practice, let alone 20 under 5:30.
If you're going off athletic.net, you're also almost certainly missing dual meet results, and a decent number of the 5:00 - 5:05 kids you'll find on the rankings may have broken 5 at some point, although those results are a real pain to find.
In response to the OP. A few have already gone along these lines, but I would say the average HS female runner in the US averages somewhere between 20 and 30MPW. I have had a few All Americans who ran considerably more. One at 60-65, one at 55-60, one at 35-40 and one at 30-35. My HS teams averaged 30-35 in season, 15MPW in June more in August-November.
cali boy wrote:
Older Student wrote:Initial but not exhaustive research shows 0 teams outside of GO in CA having multiple sub 5:00 milers both of the last two years let alone "always".
What would you consider a slew? 10? 20?
I haven't been there in a couple years; last time we had two under 5 was probably 2013 or 2014. The top 7 XC would usually all be 5:30 or faster--this wasn't a 4000 kid school, they were lucky if they had 20 distance girls regularly showing up to practice, let alone 20 under 5:30.
If you're going off athletic.net, you're also almost certainly missing dual meet results, and a decent number of the 5:00 - 5:05 kids you'll find on the rankings may have broken 5 at some point, although those results are a real pain to find.
That's really impressive. Nice work. Can you simplify what you learned works into 3-4 key points?
You Can Do It Too wrote:
I don't think it's too much to ask ANY athlete to gradually work-up to 60 minute daily runs & a 80-90 minute long run. You simply have to take your time to get to that level.
WEEK 1: 35 minutes daily
WEEK 2: 40 minutes daily
WEEK 3: 45 minutes daily
WEEK 4: 50 minutes daily + long run
WEEK 5: 55 minutes daily + long run
WEEK 6: 60 minutes daily + long run
Maybe it takes you 7 or 8 weeks to get to 60 minute runs, but the above is a good generic build-up schedule.
I would try to make as many of your runs on soft surfaces as possible.
I would, too, try to do some barefoot running 3 times a week. (Keep that barefoot running time INCLUDED in your daily run time.)
In week 3, I would start adding strides (2-3 times a week) and/or hill sprints.
Hold 60 minute runs throughout the season. Once your body adapts to 60 minute runs, you can do progressive 60 minutes run (for example, 60 minutes with the last 5-10 minutes hard) & hilly runs.
Then, you can do tempo runs & fartleks (while keeping strides & hill sprints).
There you go. Good luck!
This is good. However... reality is most kids don't run in the summer so by the time they are ready to "start" the real training the season is over.
The reality is there are kids who struggle running 2 miles while others do their work in the summer and can handle 50+. So it really is an individual thing.
Then school starts. They don't get the sleep required to improve as training stress and academic stress increase.
So it depends. How many APs, how much sleep, how many other sports/school activities are they doing?
CWRP wrote:
You Can Do It Too wrote:I don't think it's too much to ask ANY athlete to gradually work-up to 60 minute daily runs & a 80-90 minute long run. You simply have to take your time to get to that level.
WEEK 1: 35 minutes daily
WEEK 2: 40 minutes daily
WEEK 3: 45 minutes daily
WEEK 4: 50 minutes daily + long run
WEEK 5: 55 minutes daily + long run
WEEK 6: 60 minutes daily + long run
Maybe it takes you 7 or 8 weeks to get to 60 minute runs, but the above is a good generic build-up schedule.
I would try to make as many of your runs on soft surfaces as possible.
I would, too, try to do some barefoot running 3 times a week. (Keep that barefoot running time INCLUDED in your daily run time.)
In week 3, I would start adding strides (2-3 times a week) and/or hill sprints.
Hold 60 minute runs throughout the season. Once your body adapts to 60 minute runs, you can do progressive 60 minutes run (for example, 60 minutes with the last 5-10 minutes hard) & hilly runs.
Then, you can do tempo runs & fartleks (while keeping strides & hill sprints).
There you go. Good luck!
This is good. However... reality is most kids don't run in the summer so by the time they are ready to "start" the real training the season is over.
The reality is there are kids who struggle running 2 miles while others do their work in the summer and can handle 50+. So it really is an individual thing.
Then school starts. They don't get the sleep required to improve as training stress and academic stress increase.
So it depends. How many APs, how much sleep, how many other sports/school activities are they doing?
If your state allows AND if the coach is dedicated, he/she holds Summer Running practices (6 days a week). (Having a good Assistant Coach to help split-up the Summer Running Supervision helps a lot. For example, I supervise the first 3 weeks of Summer Running & my Assistant Coach will supervise the last 3 weeks.)
I hold a spring informational recruitment meeting at both the high school & middle school to get kids names, addresses, & emails. Everyone knows when Summer Running starts. I will send home flyers, email, & call the kids who signed-up & don't show up during the first week of Summer Running.
Anyone going on vacation during the summer is given a schedule & expected to run while gone.
I usually get a small "second wave" of kids cut from other sports (volleyball, football, etc.) during the first week of official practice in August. They would start with Week 1 of my above schedule.
And, we try to hold 60 minutes daily throughout the school year. It's difficult because we race too much (but I don't have a say in that). We usually use Wednesday meets as workouts & save ourselves for Saturday Invitationals.
So, I guess it depends on the situation of the school system & state high school athletic rules.
You Can Do It Too! wrote:
CWRP wrote:This is good. However... reality is most kids don't run in the summer so by the time they are ready to "start" the real training the season is over.
The reality is there are kids who struggle running 2 miles while others do their work in the summer and can handle 50+. So it really is an individual thing.
Then school starts. They don't get the sleep required to improve as training stress and academic stress increase.
So it depends. How many APs, how much sleep, how many other sports/school activities are they doing?
If your state allows AND if the coach is dedicated, he/she holds Summer Running practices (6 days a week). (Having a good Assistant Coach to help split-up the Summer Running Supervision helps a lot. For example, I supervise the first 3 weeks of Summer Running & my Assistant Coach will supervise the last 3 weeks.)
I hold a spring informational recruitment meeting at both the high school & middle school to get kids names, addresses, & emails. Everyone knows when Summer Running starts. I will send home flyers, email, & call the kids who signed-up & don't show up during the first week of Summer Running.
Anyone going on vacation during the summer is given a schedule & expected to run while gone.
I usually get a small "second wave" of kids cut from other sports (volleyball, football, etc.) during the first week of official practice in August. They would start with Week 1 of my above schedule.
And, we try to hold 60 minutes daily throughout the school year. It's difficult because we race too much (but I don't have a say in that). We usually use Wednesday meets as workouts & save ourselves for Saturday Invitationals.
So, I guess it depends on the situation of the school system & state high school athletic rules.
I just have trouble believing this progression. Suppose the avg pace is 8:30/mi. 35 mins daily is 29 mpw, and within six weeks the runner is at 60 mins per day and 49 mpw? And that's the norm? You already said this is true- it is just surprising to me.
You Can Do It Too! wrote:
CWRP wrote:This is good. However... reality is most kids don't run in the summer so by the time they are ready to "start" the real training the season is over.
The reality is there are kids who struggle running 2 miles while others do their work in the summer and can handle 50+. So it really is an individual thing.
Then school starts. They don't get the sleep required to improve as training stress and academic stress increase.
So it depends. How many APs, how much sleep, how many other sports/school activities are they doing?
If your state allows AND if the coach is dedicated, he/she holds Summer Running practices (6 days a week). (Having a good Assistant Coach to help split-up the Summer Running Supervision helps a lot. For example, I supervise the first 3 weeks of Summer Running & my Assistant Coach will supervise the last 3 weeks.)
I hold a spring informational recruitment meeting at both the high school & middle school to get kids names, addresses, & emails. Everyone knows when Summer Running starts. I will send home flyers, email, & call the kids who signed-up & don't show up during the first week of Summer Running.
Anyone going on vacation during the summer is given a schedule & expected to run while gone.
I usually get a small "second wave" of kids cut from other sports (volleyball, football, etc.) during the first week of official practice in August. They would start with Week 1 of my above schedule.
And, we try to hold 60 minutes daily throughout the school year. It's difficult because we race too much (but I don't have a say in that). We usually use Wednesday meets as workouts & save ourselves for Saturday Invitationals.
So, I guess it depends on the situation of the school system & state high school athletic rules.
I just have trouble believing this progression. Suppose the avg pace is 8:30/mi. 35 mins daily is 29 mpw, and within six weeks the runner is at 60 mins per day and 49 mpw? And that's the norm? You already said this is true- it is just surprising to me.
20 mile increase over 6 weeks is hard to believe?
That's just a 3-ish mile increase per week. That is nothing...
What is shocking about this? In college 29-49 was week 1 to week 2 coming off a season break.
[/quote]
I just have trouble believing this progression. Suppose the avg pace is 8:30/mi. 35 mins daily is 29 mpw, and within six weeks the runner is at 60 mins per day and 49 mpw? And that's the norm? You already said this is true- it is just surprising to me.[/quote]
With just a smidge of clarification, we are not allowed to run together on Sundays. This is our day off...unless we race on Saturday, then the student-athlete is to do a 35 minute recovery run (on their own).
But, you're right in a lot of ways. Our first week is roughly 24 miles (assuming an 8:30 pace) & we go to 45 miles a week. That's not high mileage at all!
Let's say a kid is a bit faster, he's 50+ miles a week. Or, what if a kid is slower? -39 miles a week?
Do I have kids who walk/run or run/walk the first week (for 35 minutes)? Absolutely. Then, the following week, we hope they get closer to running the whole time without walking. When they can run 35 minutes without walking, we start slowly increasing the length of the daily run.
As I stated previously, we run mainly on soft surfaces. We do barefoot running & barefoot exercises 3 times a week. I really think this helps a lot. We do hip strengthening (3 times a week) & core work too (3 times a week).
Do I still have terrible runners off of this type of mileage? Yes. But, they're developing a good aerobic base & having fun (with running, pasta parties, movie night, Saturday Breakfast Runs, etc.). Do I have really fast runners (relatively speaking)? Sure. I have those too.