Out of competition testing of African teams

No, actually the poster was busy watching his little brother play soccer all day yesterday and busy working and running the days before that.

I can't find anywhere on the WADA site where they specifically lists tests, such as the USADA does. I did find this:

http://www.wada-ama.org/rtecontent/document/Stats2003.pdf

Gymnastics, Aquatics, Cycling and Athletics had the most blood/urine tests.

HA HA HA.......this is a funny thread.

1) Any time someone asks a question and they themselves call it a "GOOD question,"(name of poster starting this thread) it's probably not.

2) Look, let's make this guy happy. Lets tell him this(its probably not true, but lets humor him): OK, the East Africans don't get tested as much, and a couple of their best guys are on drugs. And???????? Get rid of those guys and THEY STILL KICK EVERYONE IN THE WORLD'S ASSES TEN TIMES OVER IN BOTH MEN'S AND WOMEN'S. So now what's your point????

3) It's funny that LetsRun linked this thread to the front page right under the WC XC stories/results. THIS is an interesting thread??? Hardly. Obvioulsy they want to cast some doubt on the greatness of the East Africans. I guess Wejo has trouble stomaching the fact that he would at least two minutes behind the best of East Africa in a race like this.

Anyone buying my genetic superiority ideas yet????

GoodQuestion wrote:

No, actually the poster was busy watching his little brother play soccer all day yesterday and busy working and running the days before that.

goodquestion, your timing of your thread is stereotypical of the lets run forums. after every great performance by the east africans we have the same type of thread posted, however only admiration and praise after a great performance by an american. Yet the american sprinters have been proven to be somewhat tarnished and the usatf surrounding the 80s glory years were somewhat protective of their athletes when it came to testing. in your opinion, do you think a clean mary slaney could have whipped the doped up russians in the world champs in 83, if she were in fact clean. should we rather not leave the witch hunting process in the mccarthy era and the job to wada and the usada , who are in actual fact doing a far better job these days.

GoodQuestion wrote:

Again excellent responses (sarcasm), the ad hominem arugment does not work here - calling me a whiner does nto support your position.

No one has even gotten close to answering my question - are they tested, and if not are the champs legit. We know that the primary endurance boosters have a detectability window that renders in-comp testing inadequate, yet it appears that no steps are being taken to see that top performers are being subjected to the same level of scrutiny that the others in the field have to deal with. Honestly, I'm a huge fan of the African runners, but I'd like to see a bit more of an effort from the powers that be to confirm the legitimacy of their performances with OOC testing at the camps in Africa.

Yes, all athletes at the top level are tested.

It is more than obvious that your "sincere query" is no more than a glorified version of the normal daily routine on this festering eyesore known as a "discussion forum."

When Bekele maintains 4:03 pace for 5,000m or Kipchoge or Sihine or Shaheen does some stunning athletic feat that many on this board cannot conceive, people like to comfort themselves by thinking that surely athletes cannot exceed their own talent level by such lengths and so, naturally, they must be cheating.

Wrong. These athletes are tested every time they compete in Europe and also tested randomly throughout the year.

If you want the real specifics, e-mail a WADA official and ask yourself. Do not try to pass off your question as more than a jab at African runners who you suspect, based on nothing more than good performance, of drug use.

Drugs or not the africans will always be fast no matter what!

muhaha wrote:

Drugs or not the africans will always be fast no matter what!

they say the same for armstrong

Jab at the African runners? Have I accused them of anything? No, I have simply pointed out that, because they haven't been tested, no one can mount a convincing case for their "cleanness." How about a jab at the glaring inconsistencies created by the current system.

A system under which some athletes stand a good chance of being tested while others don't is bad. A system under which those with the least chance of being tested are those enjoying the highest levels of success is unjustifiable - and that is the system as it now exists. A system where those athletes are managed by agents who have a history of working with doped athletes (see Kenya's line-up this year) and still aren't tested, unacceptable.

Hey the N. Korean leadership spends their money on booze and nuke weapons equipment.

No country has a monopoly on skewed priorities.

All things are possible in the 21st century.

I ask about out of comp testing, and you offer, as an answer, that they are subject to in-comp testing when they race in Europe - a far different thing, and likely something you don't really know to be factual. Common sense might tell one that these athletes are being tested when they race in Europe, but is it so? Common sense would also lead one to believe that athletes setting world best marks on the roads are being tested, but truth is that for years they haven't been. Most current road "world bests" were set and ratified without testing.

As for your claim that these athletes are being "randomly tested throughout the year" - totally unsubstantiated. If they're being tested while in the US, we'd know it because their names would appear on USADA's testing lists.

I tell you that no one is testing them at their training camps - not in Africa, where the testers never show their faces, and not in Albuquerque or Boulder, where some of these guys train. They can train, and even race, in the US for years without being tested - they pick their races, info about which races are testing gets leaked and those races are avoided, and USADA refuses to subject them to the same level of out of comp examination being meted out to our own athletes.

My timing is suspect, I'll grant you that, but it comes as a coindence that sees me with free time this weekend - thanks to spring break. I've been thinking about this plenty, just finally got around to posting it. I probably lack the clout to get candid answers on this issue from WADA or USADA, but Wejo could probably make a few calls and find out that I'm right about this.

Uhhh, nothing personal but Lewis may have been dirty, Spitz only dominated one Olympic Games, Tiger has been off his dominance for 2 years or so, I have no idea who this Federer character is and the Celtics drafted very well akin to the Montreal NHL teams who had a monopoly on all players within a 50-mile radius of Montreal, as the Toronto Maple Leafs did within the same distance from Toronto. Please note that dominance was limited to a short season: namely the Stanley Cup playoffs, in response to which I offer that the 1950's Detroit Red Wings teams were BETTER as they finished atop the NHL after the 72-game regular season 7 times; I offer that as being more difficult.

I never understood the need for a NHL regular season, but since the sport is destroying itself, this is a major digression.

Most people never heard of Al Oerter or the discus, I never heard of Phelps

Any T & F records or win streaks set since 1970 are suspect especially if they were E. European or former-USSR personnel who set them. Since the emergence of FILA and one Dr. Rosa, I for one suspect them and say so publicly.

Why would the testers not go to their house in Addis?

Sir Lance-alot, I agree with most of what you say on letsrun. I also agree with almost everything you just said. However I still disagree with your assertion that the superiority that the East Africans display is due to superior genetics. I think it is environmental. Maybe it is just my undying hope that we have more control of our own destiny. Maybe I just don't want to believe that so much of who we are is genetically pre-determined. Aditionally I have seen little scientific evidence that suggests a genetic explanation to the East Aficans' success over an environmental one.

Anyway, I could be wrong and you could be right...that doesn't matter. Let's just agree that the answer is one or the other and not drugs for the sake of this thread and save the nature vs. nurture argument for a different day.

I (and you apparently)can't think of any good reason why they wouldn't - I want to know why they don't.

Please offer evidence to support your statement.

No, you refute it with evidence that it has happened, even once, since the John Ngugi incident. You need only offer one example to negate my whole contention, yet no one can do it because it hasn't happened.

I am curious what experience you are really talking from. I spent four months traianing in Kenya with the national marathon team prior to the Paris world Championships. I saw a team of incredibly hard-working and dedicated guys that could not even afford new shoes. They were all (bar one or two that have sponsorships) running on shoes that had done well in excess of 1000 miles. The shoes had holes in so big you could basically call them sandals in some cases. SO the people that invest all this money in supposedly "juicing" these elite runners don't have enough money to give them some shoes to stop them being injured? Their drugs are simple: Hard work, tea, ugali, sleep, and more hard work. These athletes are not hiding from anyone. They are also incredibly passionate and supportive of other athletes. When I arrived I would finish up a good mile behind then on a tempo run and they would tell me I was "so strong". In fact, maybe that is the problem here. Everyone prefers to back stab and slander the efforts of others instead of being positive and actually TRAINING.

I ask you how many 3 hour fartleks have you done with a coach blowing his whistle to tell you when each interval will end? How many times have you gone out and done 100 hill repeats?? Yes... 100. There is nothing to say that you cannot accomplish what these fine athletes have done except that you are too busy complaining about everything and making excuses. Who knows... if you train hard enough, you may not need an excuse...

I'm just curious... but are you no REALLY expecting trackhead to have access to all of the drug testing files??

Then you would be the perfect person to tell us that you saw, or even heard, of a tester showing up. Again, re-read all my posts, and you will see nothing accusing anyone of doping - all of what I've posted simply states that they're not being tested. I don't care how they train, what they eat, or what they wear. I want to know if they're being tested, according to WADA protocols, in the weeks and months leading up to major competition. You tell us, in great and fascinating detail, about how they trained - but even you have to admit that you never saw or heard of a tester showing up unannounced to collect samples.