priorities wrote:
Has the New York marathon invited any convicted dopers to its elite fields over the last say 10 years? If they have then that is a disgrace and NYRR should be cleaning the sport up at that end, not beating up on some poor loser trying to win 50 dollars at some road race.
Abbott WMM do not allow any athlete with a prior sanction to compete for prize money or be invited to their events. The WMM do a better job than IAAF in living up to their words with regards to anti-doping.
Bretom wrote:
... sipped...
...I just hope everyone the sport is thinking carefully as they foist professional responsibilities on amateur athletes and amateur athletes think carefully before they agree to shoulder them.
On your other points, fair enough. For this last bit, again, I'm going to be specific about vocabulary, as I think it is important in this case.
I think your using the word amateur to describe the masses; that there are elites and amateurs and no one else. But I would describe the masses as recreational athletes. Amateurs are still the ones to take the sport seriously, like yourself. Recreational athletes don't and have less responsibility. The differentiation already exists, as you'll see many races explain that headphones, strollers or costumes are allowed for everyone not competing for prize money, or in a certain corral or starting position. Moreover, the amateurs are the one with some shot at prize money or points standings or whatever. These rely on fairness being enforced. (So where is the line between amateur and recreational? Murky, but maybe the line is where their performances are being rewarded, either with prize money, prime starting corals, or end-of-series rankings.)
I don't see anything wrong with putting professional responsibilities on amateur athletes. I agree though that it would be overstepping to expect the recreational athletes live up to the WADA code.
If they are amateurs, how are they getting paid?
(Also, I don't think the Irish Sprinter's EPO case is any evidence of a false positive, but that is for a different thread)
polevaultpower wrote:
Bretom wrote:I also take any medicine prescribed to me (but no, I don't have asthma or Wigginsitis). False positives happen to professional athletes - the chance of one happening to me seems very small but still much higher. I'll probably sign the waiver and agree to be tested but NYRR should be cognizant of the risk they're exposing true amateurs to, be very confidant in their testing protocol and be prepared to exercise discretion carefully.
It's USADA doing the testing, right? Once they test, NYRR doesn't have any say in what happens or the penalties. It's not NYRR's protocol and they can't collect urine and not test because _they_ aren't the ones collecting, USADA DCOs are.
It would behoove you to research TUEs and call USADA to check any medication you are prescribed if you aren't 100% sure. That's the biggest thing tripping up recreational athletes, not getting a TUE in advance for stuff that is eligible for TUEs.
But if you're finishing 26th in races you're really unlikely to actually get tested. I'm guessing the focus will be on prize money people, unless USADA has a tip about someone in particular.
Your concerns are justified, the process is not perfect.
Hell's Kitchen wrote:
Get a job and race on Sunday like the rest of us schlubs .
Schlub?? Now that is pure New Yorker!
I haven't laughed that hard since John Denver's briss!
Unless they're putting banned substances into centrum vitamins, gatorade, milk or meat, why would there be any reason for anyone honest to worry about this one? If you're too sick to run without medication, then don't compete for place and prize money. I am happy that they are doing this. Virtually all of the money goes to Ethiopian and Kenyan imports, who live in crowded apartments in the Bronx and typically do nothing except train and rest and race on the weekends. They run for West Side now but used to run for Westchester. Sometimes, they get good enough to make the leap up to elite status in the majors. I think that Buzunesh Diba (?? something like that) was one of them who did it. But runners at this level could well be cheating, though they probably don't need it to beat the local American runners even in NYC.
well said. whole thing is BS and sets a bad precedent. It WILL decrease numbers when the poor back of the pack guy who forgot to declare an RX is selected randomly. how are amateurs supposed to stay up to date on everything as a hobby? They risk inadvertent shame, not just in running but professionally, for running 25:00 5k and taking NyQuil the night before or whatever. Dumb.
I think the solution for those who do not wish to follow ingredients in their supplements and getting TUEs for common medications is to be able to opt out of the prize money pool and opt out of testing yet still race and get recorded.
This solved the exposure for those who have moral turpitude clause ramifications in their professional lives
NYRR just has to add a opt out of testing and prizes check-off box on the entry forms.
Marijuana (legal for arguments sake), adderall and sexual performance drugs...
How would this work?
Under my proposal if you and your honey want to light-up before your foodie pig-out or if you want to pop a Sildenafil for your orgy with a Yutte Stensgaard lookalike you could opt out of both prizes & testing and still run in a NYRR race.Or you could file for TUEs .
Macdaddy wrote:
Marijuana (legal for arguments sake), adderall and sexual performance drugs...
How would this work?
They cheat, they have for years.
I had to race a yearly parade of these a** hankies and the cheating Morrocans from Brooklyn.
They are unabashed cheaters and liars.
There is a reason NYRRC did this, and I applaud them.
priorities wrote:
I would much rather NYRR and the sport in general focused a whole lot more on busting the top level athletes who are cheating; they are the ones stealing the most money from the sport.
Has the New York marathon invited any convicted dopers to its elite fields over the last say 10 years? If they have then that is a disgrace and NYRR should be cleaning the sport up at that end, not beating up on some poor loser trying to win 50 dollars at some road race.
This is like coming down hard on someone doing a few hundred dollars of welfare fraud while doing next to nothing about multinational companies or people like Donald Trump who are avoiding paying millions of dollars in taxes.
Actually, I believe the NYRRs DO "target recruit" certain athletes, hoping to catch them through drug testing. This is how Ezkyas Sisay was finally busted. As a World Marathon Major, they also subject their elites to out-of-competition testing now.
The NYRR are very keen are catching cheats, as evident by this new program. They are at the forefront of doing what's right and using their money towards a worthy cause. It's lost money for them having it go to a bunch of no-name Africans who take the money and leave/send it home. No contribution to the sport, nothing.
Bretom nails it! wrote:
well said. whole thing is BS and sets a bad precedent. It WILL decrease numbers when the poor back of the pack guy who forgot to declare an RX is selected randomly. how are amateurs supposed to stay up to date on everything as a hobby? They risk inadvertent shame, not just in running but professionally, for running 25:00 5k and taking NyQuil the night before or whatever. Dumb.
Dude or dudette....please!
PSA - don't eat beef in Mexico or China before a NYRR race:
http://nypost.com/2016/05/03/nfl-decides-texans-peds-were-actually-mexican-meat/
They should give the runners the option if they want to accept the prize money, they would need to accept the drug test or they can skip the drug test at the expense of no prize money.
inthepdx wrote:
They should give the runners the option if they want to accept the prize money, they would need to accept the drug test or they can skip the drug test at the expense of no prize money.
Anyone know if the NYRRs have looked at this option ?
Or if their position is to only test prize winners?
Why would the waste money to expose 12 minute milers as dopers anyway?
second mention of same idea wrote:
inthepdx wrote:They should give the runners the option if they want to accept the prize money, they would need to accept the drug test or they can skip the drug test at the expense of no prize money.
Anyone know if the NYRRs have looked at this option ?
Or if their position is to only test prize winners?
Why would the waste money to expose 12 minute milers as dopers anyway?
I know right? How stupid of them to come out and say "We are testing the 12 minute milers."
Ohh, that's not what they said? Okay, well, I guess it's a perfectly fine inference that they are targeting the 12-minute milers.
Ohh... wait... The article says say: "The new effort, scheduled to begin in the spring of 2017, will test the top local and club runners — the tier below the level of full-time professionals."
Feel free to make up your own facts, but don't be surprised when no one else shares your reaction.