Bingo. Or slightly better
Bingo. Or slightly better
yyy wrote:
Snell had 22.8. Hard to believe that ELG was slower!!!!
IIRC Snell ran 22.3 for 220--roughly 22.1 for 200 meters. No idea if this was done when he was close to his peak, speed-wise.
yyy wrote:
Snell had 22.8. Hard to believe that ELG was slower!!!!
This.
yyy wrote:
Snell had 22.8. Hard to believe that ELG was slower!!!!
Snell ran 1:44.2 on a rugby field, the man was a tank.
Okay so do you think El G and Lagat could have run under 22 seconds with some 200 meter specific training?
I could run 23.6 at age 41 from blocks .
I'm not even in their zipcode talent wise
I'm NOT a sprinter!
They had to way faster than that !
rolling start under 22!
stationary start 22.5 ish
Deanouk wrote:
yyy wrote:Snell had 22.8. Hard to believe that ELG was slower!!!!
Snell run 1:44.3 on grass! On a modern track that has to be a second quicker.
He ran 47.9 for 440yd relay on cinders.
He would have had superior 400m and 200 speed than either Lagat or El G.
I haven't seen this 22.8 reported 200 speed, but not doubting you. Was it also on cinders? Was it 200m or 220yds? Was it in training or competition?
I could see Snell being capable of 22 low and 47 low on todays tracks.
People have mentioned Ovett's 21.7. This was in a low key meet and with hand timing. More likely 21.9 FAT.
It was also in 1975, when he was 19 and had pbs of 1:46 and 3:43. His 400m pb was another hand timed 47.5 from '74, when he was 18.
Ovett had competed over 200m and 400m as a junior and was one of the best in the country as a teen over 1 lap.
His only other 200m that he is known to have run was a 22.9 in 78, when his 800 and 1500 best times had inproved to 1:44.0 and 3:34.4. The fastest 400m he ran that year was 48.4.
Clearly, by the time Ovett was at his 1500m peak (78-81) his all out basic 200m ability had wained somewhat at the expense of big improvements in his endurance. His turn of speed was still incredible, but he couldn't have still run a 21.7 when in WR 1500m shape IMO.
Lydiard said that Snell was a 22.3 guy back in the day (1978: p.69). Of interest to some here to was in a report from a well known (in NZ) journalist in 1974. Around the time of the Commonwealth Games, on the grass track at Canterbury University (where all the athletes were housed) they had a warm-up meet and John Walker ran a 400m to sharpen up (he was feeling a bit stiff that day) and came last in 49.9. About a week later he ran 1:44.9 & 3:32.5 (on a synthetic track), anyhow unbeknown to all but a few (including this journalist) Snell came out of retirement at age 35 or 36 and with one month's training ran "one second faster" then Walker had done only days earlier, somebody else said he ran 48.9 but I'm not sure whether this was on the grass warm up track at the University or on a synthetic track in Auckland. Anyhow, the guy still had some speed. BTW Walker's 400m p.b. was 48.9.
On El Guerrouj, isn't there reports on line of him doing 300m reps in training with "rabbits" in 35s while at Ifrane? So surely he could run sub-23? I remember feeling confident about myself twelve years ago and then I read that.
On Lagat, there was a "Workout Wednesday" session of 400m reps about 2 months ago in Flagstaff. I think Lagat did the last 400m rep in 53s. The man is 41!!! His last 400m in Athens was something like 51s.
Cram it wrote:
Cram was the slowest person under 1:43, imo. I would rank Ovett, Coe, El G, Cram, and Lagat in that order, as far as sprinting speed. Ovett and Coe were capable of mid-to-low 46 speed. I would think El G could run 46 mid to high.
There is no way El G was capable of anywhere near 47 flat.
IIRC he and his coach were asked about his 400m speed and one said 49 and the other 48.
He was not as fast as Cram over 400m and wouldn't have been over 200m either. I would be quite confident that El G would not be able to break 23.0 from blocks.
Ovett was never capable of 46 low for 400m. He had phenomenal change in pace, but that doesn't equate to great 400 speed. A someone else pointed out, he started his career as a sprinter, but by the time he was Olympic champion and 1500 world record holder, he would not have managed his pb of 21.7.
His fastest ever 400m was 47.5. He ran lots of relays in the 47.5 - 48.5 range during his peak years. His absolute fastest was 46.9 in 79. That's 47.5 for flat.
yyy wrote:
Snell had 22.8. Hard to believe that ELG was slower!!!!
snell was an 800m/1500m guy, El G a 1500m/5000m runner.
Just a wild theory… Maybe the reason your teammate only owns a 4:10 in 1500 is that he's really a natural sprinter.Your logic "Faster at 1500 or mile > definitely faster at 200" leads to some interesting discussions after Mr. Bolt finally runs that mile to 4:59 or 5:01 :)
jamin . wrote:
odof wrote:Is this a joke or is this serious?
Dead serious.
El G and Lagat could probably run 21.5-22.5 for a 200 in their prime.
Recovering LRC poster wrote:
El G and Lagat could probably run 21.5-22.5 for a 200 in their prime.
No way 21.5!!
Coe's best was 21.6 in training and he ran a couple of sub 46 400 legs. They certainly are nowhere near as quick as Coe over 400 and would be further back over 200m.
I think 22.5 would be the absolute limit of their ability.
I ran a 22.9 200m in my first 200m ever as a sophomore, that was after training for cross country and switching to sprints two months before track season. Granted I was training for the 800m before the switch, but that time put me near the top of my age group in my county, but I have trouble believing that I had more speed than the best 1500m guys of all time.
jamin . wrote:
A teammate who owns a 4:10 1500 has 22 high 200 speed. Hard to believe he could beat Lagat in a 200.
Get that boy in the decathlon!
i would imagine under 22 seconds for both.i read somewhere sebastian coe ran 21.7 so id say theyd be as fast as he was.
jeff tallon wrote:
i would imagine under 22 seconds for both.i read somewhere sebastian coe ran 21.7 so id say theyd be as fast as he was.
No way that fast.
I don't think people realise how fast 21.7 is from blocks, if it's automatic timing. Not talking loose hand timing with a rolling start from your coach, where a time could be anything up to 0.5 out.
We are talking Schippers or Marion Jones speed.
If Lagat and EL G were as fast as that and Coe over 200m, then with better over endurance than Coe, who had 46 flat 400 ability, then it means Lagat and El G would have been capable of 45 mid for 400 and should easily have beaten Kipketer and 1:41 for 800.
They never showed anything approaching that sort of ability over 800m.
They were both 1500/5000 runners. They had super human endurance but couldn't have even approached the sort of speed Snell had, who I can believe would have been capable of 22 low.
An elite miler/5k guy isn't going to have anywhere the speed of an 800/1500 elite.
Hmmmm... Careful there...
EL-G routinely closed 1500s in 50._ for 400m, and that's after what was a staggering pace to begin with.
A friend of mine who was a 1:49._ 800m guy once jumped into a 2 with us just for a laugh and ran 23.30. Not a world talent by any means, and in fact, professed himself to lack top-end speed.
I say this from an informed perspective. From blocks, I'd give Lagat/El-G 22.40-22.60... something like that, factoring in the aforementioned observations.
But lest we remember... this is all pure speculation lads.
For reference, Clayton Murphy ran 21.4 at the end of his workout before the olympics. Running start.