Breaking point between hobby jogger, runner, and athlete

Used to be Rono wrote:

nocluedude wrote:

I thought joggers where a creation of Nike, but now I see Nike was here long before. Thanks for sorting this out.

My father ran track and cross country before enlisting in the Army in 1943. He ultimately returned to running in the 60s. There no Nikes. Just so you know.

Indeed Bowerman wrote his book on "Jogging" in the 1960s, before he was trashing the family waffle iron and well before Phil Knight was selling shoes out of the back of his car.

This is today and always is a silly discussion.

The fact that the word "Hobby" is attached to "Jogger" means that anyone who doesn't run for a living is a "Hobby Jogger".

And then Runner vs. Athlete? That is subjective to the nth degree.

Why do so many of you care about labels so much? Just run, or don't run.

Athlete: everyone out doing athletic stuff. It's just a question of how good of one you are.

Hobby Jogger: everyone not getting paid to run. If you are not getting paid, it is a hobby for you.

Nope, that's just your take on what "hobby jogger" means and I'm willing to bet in Rojo-style (pulling the offer when I'm proved to be wrong, giving excuses about my wife even though I don't have one) that you're in the minority here. Hobby jogger is someone who isn't talented enough or doesn't work hard enough to go sub something (the debate of the precise time/distance is ongoing even in this thread). It doesn't have anything to do with getting paid. To be a runner you need to have passion that is at least borderline obsessive. To be elite you need to be competitive at least nationally. Money has nothing to do with it. Similar distinction can be seen in any sport or hobby.

Boss Man wrote:

Athlete: everyone out doing athletic stuff. It's just a question of how good of one you are.

However as was pointed out by one person already, running is not at all athletic. A good runner is in shape, but not athletic. I seem to remember a certain coach talking about how hard it was to find good steeplechasers because of how inherently uncoordinated top runners are.

Run for the joy of running. I applaud you for being interested in running your best. Some may have higher limits, but it does not make them better people. If improving is important to you, seek advice from experienced coaches, books, or even ask questions on this board. On this site, once you wade through the insults, you'll find some decent advice.

When you go to races, do you find that runners faster than you ignore you because of your times? I would find that surprising. I am friends with many who are both faster and slower than me. The social aspect makes it fun and it is not exclusionary. We go out to breakfast or dinner after races or workouts and listen to each others stories. A good race for me may not be acceptable to another guy and might be a pipe dream for someone else, but you go for it at your own ability and enjoy the process and the results.

If you are seeking approval from LetsRun Posers, you need a psychologist. These boards are full of anonymous unhappy people who want to tear others down to make themselves feel better. Only nobody knows who they are and nobody really cares so that make them more spiteful. Ignore them and you will be happier.

oxodk wrote:

If you aren't making a living from your running, then you are a hobby jogger. So that would likely mean anyone slower than 13:20 for 5000m.

Look , you wise guys pretend that the word "jogger" is the same as "runner". Jogging just is "slow running". It's a subset of "running".

I've had someone argue that running a sub-60 400m is jogging ... If you are a sprinter type?! That's silly of course.

If you can run 5k in 13:21+ to say 18:37 (6:00 pace) you are not jogging! We can haggle about what the cutoff is between jogging and running...but any thoughtful person Knows that jogging is not a pace mile under 5 min pace!

In my opinion it's all about the attitude.

Runner is anyone who runs. More to the point, it's someone who deeply cares about RUNNING.

Running is my hobby. I'm a hobby runner.

At this point in my life I'm not very fast. But I love running. I love the sport of running. I love learning about and talking about running. I love striving to be the best possible runner I can be.

Hobby jogger is also not very fast. But hobby jogger doesn't care about running. Hobby jogger doesn't know the names of the top T&F athletes. Hobby jogger "runs" a half marathon on very little training and is happy at the end because he completed a full 13.1 miles! Hobby jogger doesn't strive to be faster. Hobby jogger only entered the half so he could post about it on Facebook and put a 13.1 sticker on his car.

That's the difference in my mind.

subfive wrote:

oxodk wrote:

If you aren't making a living from your running, then you are a hobby jogger. So that would likely mean anyone slower than 13:20 for 5000m.

Look , you wise guys pretend that the word "jogger" is the same as "runner". Jogging just is "slow running". It's a subset of "running".

I've had someone argue that running a sub-60 400m is jogging ... If you are a sprinter type?! That's silly of course.

If you can run 5k in 13:21+ to say 18:37 (6:00 pace) you are not jogging! We can haggle about what the cutoff is between jogging and running...but any thoughtful person Knows that jogging is not a pace mile under 5 min pace!

I don't know why you quoted me. Nothing in your post is related to mine. Jogging is a relative term. It is an effort level. So yes for the very elite, 5:00 pace is jogging. They can hold that pace indefinitely.

I am 39 yo never ran in HS or C, currently married with two kids and I run 65 mpw and go through two cycles of Pfitzinger 18/70 each year, marathon PR is 3:03 and I aim to run 2,500 miles every year.

I am a hobby jogger. I know it. Many others run 2x as much and way faster, good for them and I stand in awe of what they can do.

I just like to run and train and then race as best I can each year. What other people want to call me is up to them and it doesn't change what I do so why worry about it.

oxodk wrote:

subfive wrote:

Look , you wise guys pretend that the word "jogger" is the same as "runner". Jogging just is "slow running". It's a subset of "running".

I've had someone argue that running a sub-60 400m is jogging ... If you are a sprinter type?! That's silly of course.

If you can run 5k in 13:21+ to say 18:37 (6:00 pace) you are not jogging! We can haggle about what the cutoff is between jogging and running...but any thoughtful person Knows that jogging is not a pace mile under 5 min pace!

I don't know why you quoted me. Nothing in your post is related to mine. Jogging is a relative term. It is an effort level. So yes for the very elite, 5:00 pace is jogging. They can hold that pace indefinitely.

I'm not aware of anyone that can hold a 5 min pace indefinitely!? Are you saying a person who can run a marathon in 2:11 is jogging!! Jogging is slow running...at a Leisurely pace. Even, If a 2:05 marathoner is running a marathon...and he slows to 5:00 pace....that's still not jogging...because sustaining a 5:00 pace for extended periods of time is not jogging... It's running. It's fast for a human. It's not leisurely.

Why is the term not "hobby runner"? It's more descriptive of what's going on?

Flagpole wrote:

This is today and always is a silly discussion.

The fact that the word "Hobby" is attached to "Jogger" means that anyone who doesn't run for a living is a "Hobby Jogger".

And then Runner vs. Athlete? That is subjective to the nth degree.

Why do so many of you care about labels so much? Just run, or don't run.

It's not all that bothersome. But folks that refer to individuals who enjoy running as an hobby and for some reason desire to put-down their hobby...sport etc are doing it to be disrespectful.

Why is the label not; "hobby runner"? Why say jogger?

Words mean something and anyone who pretends that words don't matter is being disingenuous.

If you can sustain 5:00 pace for a few miles...you are not just jogging....even if you don't make a living doing it!

I would suggest there is a difference between a runner and a jogger. A runner trains with great emphasis placed on improving his or her performance at certain distances. Regardless of whether you are running 15 minutes 5k's and dominating local road races / high school cross country meets or finally broke 20 minutes after a year of hard work towards that goal, you are a runner. A jogger may very well race 5k's and hope to improve, but at the end of the day, they are just seeking health and an active lifestyle.

dhughes wrote:

I would suggest there is a difference between a runner and a jogger. A runner trains with great emphasis placed on improving his or her performance at certain distances. Regardless of whether you are running 15 minutes 5k's and dominating local road races / high school cross country meets or finally broke 20 minutes after a year of hard work towards that goal, you are a runner. A jogger may very well race 5k's and hope to improve, but at the end of the day, they are just seeking health and an active lifestyle.

We don't need to tie the concept to one's over all objective. Let's be technical about this. The dictionary says jogging is running at a gentle pace.

It does not not matter, if you care or don't care about your time in a race...if you are all out at 7:00 min pace for 5k, you are running. And to say that because you don't make a living running 5ks in 15 min, you're just jogging is just silly.

Down at paces slower than say 9 min, we could say that's a gentle pace regardless of your effort, but if both feet are off the hound at some point you are running....and we can haggle about how fast you need to be going to call it running. But whether or not you're paid for it or your lifestyle has nothing to do with the definitions of running or jogging.

I give proper respect to those much, much faster than me, also those around my speed or a little faster, and to those slower than me.

I've never been any good as a runner, just doing it for staying fit/being healthy.

I'm 43 and run around 15-20 mpw and have a 5k PR of 21:03

I've been running about 2.5 years of 15-20 mpw now and feel like your consummate hobby jogger.

Am presently nursing a hip injury due to my participation in a marathon 5.5 weeks ago, so I feel particularly qualified to wear the label.

Since my goals are so mediocre (fun, participation, health, social), I see no other possible label for myself. I like to race people around my ability tho, it's kinda fun!

I've never had ANY elite act condescending towards me on any run/in any race or in any situation. The Internet is a different story of course lol.

I passed by this a few times but after a while, I decided to respond. We care about the labels "so much" because they are there.Furthermore, I find it weird at best, and a few other less glamorous adjectives at worst that people are actually running on the streets simply judging the very people they might see in races or not at all.Judging did not get us where we are and it's not going to make the sport any better.This is letsrun.com. If labels do us no good at all on the streets, why have them at all?This is why it matters.

Flagpole wrote:

This is today and always is a silly discussion.

The fact that the word "Hobby" is attached to "Jogger" means that anyone who doesn't run for a living is a "Hobby Jogger".

And then Runner vs. Athlete? That is subjective to the nth degree.

Why do so many of you care about labels so much? Just run, or don't run.

Why don't you refer to yourself as a hobby runner?? Sub 7 pace for 5k is not jogging.

Why apologize for not being an elite runner or athlete?

Ponder this, is 13 sec for 100m jogging?

I have a number, not a name wrote:

Nope, that's just your take on what "hobby jogger" means and I'm willing to bet in Rojo-style (pulling the offer when I'm proved to be wrong, giving excuses about my wife even though I don't have one) that you're in the minority here. Hobby jogger is someone who isn't talented enough or doesn't work hard enough to go sub something (the debate of the precise time/distance is ongoing even in this thread). It doesn't have anything to do with getting paid. To be a runner you need to have passion that is at least borderline obsessive. To be elite you need to be competitive at least nationally. Money has nothing to do with it. Similar distinction can be seen in any sport or hobby.

Then it needs a different name (perhaps just "jogger") because "Hobby" means specifically that you don't get paid to do it.

"Hobby" means something you do for pleasure at your leisure. You can have a 9-to-5 job that is more or less a hobby if you don't need the money and you're just going in because it's fun and gives you something to do, like a gardner selling produce at a farmers market. It can take on a derogatory tone because that means one is a dabbler and not fully committed because if you were fully committed, you'd have a whole farm and be a farmer.

You can also be an obsessive hobbyist. But by then it's an oxymoron because if you're obsessed, it's more of a need and a compulsion and you're not doing it for pleasure. Plus you're making sacrifices to make room for this.

Basically running's not a hobby when it's not so much fun anymore. But you do it anyway. I'm not saying you can't derive great joy and pleasure from it, but those times are more a byproduct, not the end goal. You're not just running whenever/however you want. There's a regimen and it's more like work.

Once a runner, always a runner though.