My goal is to make it to the 2020 Olympic Trials in the Steeple and I will do everything I can to achieve this goal

"so doing a "dry run" of a season is just wasting time."

No, it is not. You also need to figure out some cross training. After bumming around for a couple of years, the core strength you once had isn't there to go to 100 mpw next spring. Years ago, HS kids often started running in the fall and did 100 mpw the next summer but they had ACTIVE childhoods and the huge recuperative powers of HS hormones.

Getting a coach is a good idea.

There is some really mixed advice here, brother. Be careful what you listen to. I'm worried you don't know enough to know the difference.

YES you need to build to higher mileage. You can handle more than you think.

NO you don't need to do 100 mpw this year or next. (I'm assuming you've never run much high mileage based on your PRs and general comments.)

Daniels is a fantastic training plan. Don't reinvent the wheel trying to "get an advantage" over somebody else. Your disadvantage is a lack of training. Take care of that and then reevaluate if you need to tweak your program.

Daniels will also work your speed, which you are in desperate need of improving. Honestly, you should probably spend your next track season working on your 1500 while sprinkling in a couple of steeples. If you can get to 3:50, you might be able to get the standard with good hurdling.

My one question to you: How are you going to improve your hurdling without a coach?

Post #3

Answers:

Training Background:

Still have to research this a bit by going through my old logs. If memory serves, I usually hovered around 50-70 miles during each season. I’ll get back to you on details.

RE:Thinkaboutit’s post

So, I’m planning on increasing mileage as I go. I just haven’t been running consistently for two years and I figured a good place to start was to start running consistently. 30 minutes’ runs give you the best cost-benefit ratio (before decreasing marginal returns starts). I WISH I could pound out 100mi weeks, but it just isn’t there yet. I think I need time to let my body adapt to running again. Boring? Yes. Very much so. Not all training is interesting.

My reasoning behind doing a dry run of a season is to practice putting a season plan together and to get in a decently sized training block with varying intensities. I haven’t done any of this for two years and I fell as if I have to wake my body up to running again.

Also: I’ve had 4-6 stress fractures. I don’t think I know how to run correctly (re: easy pace too hard, tempo pace too fast, just killing myself on intervals). I got to figure all of that out again.

RE:growler2

My PRs are all off of about 40-60mi weeks. I’m not Eddylee, either, nor trying to be. I’m trying to be a faster version of me.

RE:core strength

I am fortunate to have an excellent core and have been working on these things with a strength coach for the past two months. I will continue to work with him because I completely agree with you: it’s important. Especially for an injury prone person such as myself.

RE:jewbacca

I agree with basically everything you said. My background is in research so yeah, I’ll be vetting the ideas I get here. I like your idea about the 1500 focus; my plan was to do 800, 1500, and probably 3 steeple races. One season opener to work out the kinks and two more for PR. Usually I alternated each weekend with different races to break it up.

The best thing about my steeple was my hurling and water barrier form. I know enough about the basics to practice on my own and I was planning to head back to my college team pre-season a few times to practice barriers with the team. Also thought about building a barrier but we’ll see. I have access to hurdles at the high school I assistant coach at so I can just use those for some workouts moving into the season in march.

Week Review:

In terms of goals, this week went pretty well, excepting Monday. Hurt my back doing something dumb bouldering; was in a lot of pain so I decided not to run and let things heal. Plus, it probably helped to take the day off in a general “rest and recovery” sense. Think I nailed the true meaning of “easy” pace this week.

S: 30min 3.76mi

M: off, back pain

T: 30min 3.91mi

W: 30min 4.06mi

R: 30min 3.85mi

F: 30min 3.98mi

S: 30min 3.8mi

Good mix of terrain, 2 completely asphalt runs, one half asphalt, half limestone, one run limestone, and two runs on grass. Pretty dull week; one more of this and then we bump mileage and add strides.

..

In regards to the “peaking” phase of this little dinky xc season; just decided to play it by ear and see how I feel. If I feel more beat up, I’ll cut mileage a bit. Toying with the idea of dropping 40 minutes/week.

Ideas on volume during the peaking phase?

Update #4

RE: Historical Weekly Mileage

Weekly mileage for any season had a range of 30-75 miles. Most seasons had weekly mileage of 45-55mpw and injuries often occurred after 3-4 weeks of 60+ miles per week. For the same period (about four years of data) I averaged 50 mi per week (range 15-135mi) on the bike and 2.5 mi of swimming (range 0.75-6.2).

I think the main issue here was intensity; easy days being too hard. Also, probably burning the candle at both ends with too many workouts. Also, mental issues, putting too much stress on workouts and performing at meets.

..

Last week of “back-to-running” phase.

S: 45min 5.8mi

M: 30min 3.89

T: 25min 3.09mi

W: 30min 3.87mi

R: 30min 4.09mi

F: 30min 4.01mi

S: 30min 4.05mi

Total: 225min 28.8mi.

Decent week; a lot more on asphalt. Decided to bump long run up; figured it would be good in prep for tomorrow's long run of 70 min. Tuesday had to cut short by five minutes because of chiro and massage appointments.

Mileage and pace are not impressive by any means but easy pace isn’t supposed to be. Still feeling pretty good overall and at the time of this writing, no issues that have lasted more than three days. Hungry for the bump in mileage next week. Speaking of which, the basic outline for the next phase is:

S: 70min w/ M pace

M: 30min + strides

T: 35min w/ M pace + barefoot

W: 50min + strides

R: 30min + strides

F: 35min w/ M pace + barefoot

S: 30min + strides

First week, probably 4-6 strides barefoot on grass. Week after, 6-8 strides. Third week, 8 strides. Will play by ear based on how legs are feeling. Barefoot running will consist of 800m of light jogging with quick turnover on grass. I expect the pace to be slow during this phase as I adjust to the volume; M pace work (which is upper-end aerobic pace) will be added based on feel. Plan on having it be 10-15 minutes in duration.

That's Great! Thanks for posting!

I like you Coebra. I think you are doing great things in your training already but you can start to turn it up a notch. Try this: alternate between 20 minute runs, 30 minute runs, 45 minute runs and 60 minute runs. Sometimes you can also run twice a day if you feel like it. And you're right, your pace does not matter right now. You are going to start adopting and growing as an athlete. You just need to run a lot, sleep a lot and eat a lot.

No time for a 'dry run.'.

Everything else posted is good advice.

You need to move to CO and have wetmore and Simpson get you some tues, asthma meds, and thyroid medication.

find a great coach,take the right drugs,and youll get there.because youre not yet a national class athlete,you wont get tested.in fact,once you get there,you probably wont get tested,anyway.

Sahdude wrote:

Before you get advice we need to know your speed times. 100/200/400?

He did not ask for any advice.

You had an injury on 5/15 and you will be just reaching 40-45 mpw by November (6 months later) and then will take two weeks off? That is nuts. This guy's advice above is right. You need to NOT worry about what specific workouts you are doing and try to progress beyond what a HS freshman is doing.

Build to 50 mpw consistently - should take 4 weeks.

Step up to 60 mpw - 4 more weeks.

Increase up to 70 mpw - hold for 4 weeks.

Then take your rest period. This is the training I was doing when I was entering 10th grade. I was a 4:35 / 9:50 guy that year.

People who run 8:25 in the steeple are generally State Champs in the Mile or 2-mile or both. You have to see that you were not born with that kind of talent. Read and re-read the advice given above as it is very sound and well-meaning.

Update #5:

Let me start by saying that I appreciate your post. Really, thank you for your input. I thought hard about this and I modeled what this season and the next season would look like if I followed your basic idea:

September (basically): 280min, 37-40miles

October: 350min, 46-50 miles

November: 430min, 57-61miles

End of November: 270min with race.

During this period, if I felt good, I would do strides, upper-end aerobic pace work, and the occasional R pace workout to improve efficiency and mechanics.

Recycle for 2 weeks; 1 week completely off (probably do some swimming to keep sane, no more than 1000 yards). 1 week running every other day.

Week 1: off

Week 2: 170 min

..

Weeks 3-6: 345min, 46-49mi

Weeks 7-10: 420min, 56-60mi

Weeks 11-14: 520min, 69-74mi

Weeks 15-18: 465min, 62-66mi

Weeks 19-22: 415min, 55-59mi

..

Week 23: 365min, 48-52mi

Week 24: 315min, 42-45mi

..

I am not against higher mileage. I just don't want to get injured anymore. Because of that mentality I am conservative in my training. For example: on today's long run (70min) I ran just about 8 min pace. Man was I trucking when I busted out 7:30s for the last 2-3 miles! (sarcasm). I'm really just figuring this "easy" pace out as I go and I have no idea if I'm doing it right.

So, contrary to what the other poster said above, I am looking for opinions. If they turn out to make sense, I'll look into them more. Let me know what you think of the above.

Provided you keep working hard for 4 years, you will have a great chance to break 9:20 and to qualify for the team!

There is a lot of competition though, so you might need to run 9:15 or faster.

Update #6

..

First week of the new training block; being pretty cautious about pace so it’s a bit slower than I estimated it would be. I expect the mileage to creep up over the next three weeks.

S: 70min 8.62mi

M: 30min 3.43mi no strides

T: 35min w/ M pace + .5mi barefoot 4.7mi

W: 40min + strides 5.11 (fvcked this one up; thought it was 40min. 4 strides)

R: 43min + 4 strides, 5.35mi (made up for Wednesday's missed mileage)

F: 35min w/ M pace + barefoot, 4.49mi

S: 30min, 3.5mi trails

Total: 283min, 35.21mi

..

Decent week; pretty good mix of asphalt, grass, and track. Long run went well, very chill and a little bit more up tempo towards the end. Had excellent recovery afterwards. Monday had a bunch of storms roll through so my trails got all flooded; ended up just chilling and no strides. Tuesday went well; strong running on the track. Tried to keep myself reserved but still strong. On Wednesday, felt a few aches from Tuesday’s run but they went away after getting warmed up. Fvcked up the mileage for Wednesday; for some reason thought it was 40min. Despite this, did strides for the first time and they felt amazing. Made the mileage up on Thursday, did strides again. Felt a little roughed up on Friday, decided against the quality work and just did easy. Tried barefoot but only got one lap. Left lower leg bothered me on Friday. Saturday was super easy on the xc course before the meet. Great trails to run on but really hilly. Just took it easy.

..

Glad to have the first week of the new phase in the books. Feel a little beat up but excited for this long run tomorrow morning. Pace isn’t anything to write home about and I don’t really expect it to be during this phase of training.

..

Been thinking a lot about mileage and how to increase it without killing myself. Also been looking ahead to track and to next year’s cross country; I’ve been reading Joe Rubio’s 1500m guide and he mentions 75-85mpw is kind of the minimum to be a competitive 1500m runner. I’m not taking that as the final word on the topic but I’m going to use it as a target for next year’s mileage. Spring mileage will touch 70 miles a week with just two occasional doubles; the only changes would be slightly longer easy days and adding in more doubles.

Hope everyone else had a good week too!

Cobra,

Gosh, I think you really need to scale back your goals. Jeez to think you can set a goal of a minute faster in a 9:00 event. I don't think you are realistic at all. Try to shoot for sub-9:10 in 2017 and go from there. From where I sit your volume is way too low with your speed. I was running more volume as a 55 year old. Seems to me you are living a fantasy divorced from reality.

Igy

RE: Mr. Ghost of Igoli-

I’m not exactly sure what to say. You basically told me you don’t think you can do it, and like everyone else, you told me my mileage is too low. What do you want to hear? “Oh, gosh, mr. igoli, you’re right! I’d better curb my enthusiasm and lower my dreams.” Is that it? You want reasonable dreams with achievable goals?

Look, I get it. I get that I’m not doing enough mileage. I get that it’s a huge task. I get all of that stuff. You don’t think my current mileage bothers me? The fact that I apparently run less than every 55 year old ever? You don't think it bothers me, or I haven't thought about all of this? I don't exactly have a ton of options for increasing mileage right away; I'm basically building up from nothing and I'm too scared to pull a malmo and go straight to 100mpw. Maybe that's the fly in the ointment here, but them's the breaks.

The other issue I have here is that everyone apparently keeps thinking that I have expectations of running huge times. Which is wrong. I have no expectations of running any times. The only things I actually have are a running book written by a guy everyone mistakes for a whiskey, a 70-page manual written by Joe Rubio, a deadline of four years, and a dream of making it to the Olympic trials.

And when you really get down to it, its not about running 8:25 or whatever for the steeple and being in the Trials. It’s about having a dream, having a goal, and committing yourself to it. It’s about having a life with a purpose, even if it seems like a foolish one. It beats the hell out of working a mundane 9-5 and $hitposting on Letsrun all day.

So, yeah. Sorry for singling you out but geeze, I get it already.

..

Week Report:

Second week of the new training block in the books; only one more and then a down week. Considering running a mile time trial but not really sure if it will measure much. I have pulled good mile races out of my @ss before. Was also thinking of a 3k time trial. I am nervous about doing any time trial, really.

Anyways, here’s the week:

S: 70min 8.65mi

M: 30min 3.74mi no strides

T: 35min 4.41mi

W: 50min 6.36mi

R: 37.5min, 4.67mi + .5mi barefoot

F: 30min, 3.58mi

S: 30min, 3.84mi trails

Total: 282.5min, 35.25mi

..

Pretty comparable to last week. Long run wasn’t very different from last week and the only difference is that I haven’t done any up-tempo of any kind, M pace or strides. Been battling a shin/calf ache/pain Sunday-Wednesday and decided to not do any up tempo until it went away. Pain went away on Thursday, so feeling like I will at least get back into doing strides next week.

Got a pair of Hoka Clifton 2s on Thursday; been running in them for the past few days. Just an experiment to see how they feel. So far, so good. Legs feel alright and had to hold myself back several times on Saturday’s run. Trying to save it for the long one tomorrow.

For now, it’s just more of the same. Adapting to mileage again and molding my body back into running shape. Keep thinking about next season and next June; have been planning out some big mileage. Figure I can start doubling next summer; I’m even thinking about skipping ahead and trying to double for the upcoming track season. Not really sure about that though; will double on workout days but going to cap it at that for now. And besides, can’t look too far ahead. Gotta keep in the present too.

The people on here have been running so long that they have lost touch with reality of what it's like to start training frim nothing again. Everyone saying that you should be increasing from 40 miles after a few weeks of running? Your approach seems just fine. You even seem to be over doing it to me. 6 months of easy base training and 3 years of heaving training would be more sensible

kimani wrote:

800 is way too slow. Get your quarter down to 52 and build from there.

Just run a PB for 800m and then keep going for 2200 more metres. Once you hit 7:32 for 3000, start working on hurdles.

I am rooting for you!

Please keep us updated.