Joe Newton Retiring From York

That the Coes respected him enough to stay in Elmhurst before the 84 Olympics is enough for me.

The expectation that York should produce sub 13:50, 28:30 collegiate guys regularly is ridiculous.

The burnout myth stems from a misunderstanding of their success.

They don't win state with 8:45 two milers. They win state with 9:30 guys. They just have 5 of them on the starting line, when other teams have two or three. If that.

The team needs to be evaluated as a team, and individuals need to be evaluated as individuals. The mistake is to assume that because they were always a great team, each individual was, and should run like, a great individual. Look at the individual progression of their runners and you will see normal progressions.

Everyone talking about the times his students ran is missing the point. Newton's legacy is not the championships he won, it's the character and work ethic he instilled in thousands of young men. His contribution to society is hard to measure.

I don't mean this as a criticism of Joe Newton, I'd really like an answer.

How would he treat guys who couldn't handle the mileage? Let's say you are a 17:00 guy (for 3 miles) as a senior with no shot of running 80-100 mpw, no shot at cracking varsity and you are often injured. Do you still get to run JV? Are you part of the team atmosphere? Do you get a jersey? Etc.

Many high-mileage coaches are very "my-way-or-the-highway" and I think people assume Joe is like this by association.

My gut would tell me that he would never get the number of athletes out that he does if he and his staff were like this.

Can anyone chime in?

I didn't run for York, but I know they had 6 groups of runners for the different levels of performance/motivation. Group 6 was for the guys who just wanted to be part of the team. Someone else has to fill in the details.

RacingtheCanteloupe wrote:

I don't mean this as a criticism of Joe Newton, I'd really like an answer.

How would he treat guys who couldn't handle the mileage? Let's say you are a 17:00 guy (for 3 miles) as a senior with no shot of running 80-100 mpw, no shot at cracking varsity and you are often injured. Do you still get to run JV? Are you part of the team atmosphere? Do you get a jersey? Etc.

Many high-mileage coaches are very "my-way-or-the-highway" and I think people assume Joe is like this by association.

My gut would tell me that he would never get the number of athletes out that he does if he and his staff were like this.

Can anyone chime in?

He is very inclusive. Read ANY story about Joe Newton or just find 'The Long Green Line' on Google and watch it. He shakes hands with every member of this team and says their name at every practice....top 10 or top 100. The York band travels to state with them as well. They run their workouts in groups and all groups have captains to lead them...not only are you are part of a winning program but you are a part of something bigger than that. I believe he hands out medals to the Top 20 at state when they have their own medal ceremony in Elmhurst. And he puts up with 0 bullshit.

DiscoGary wrote:

Everyone talking about the times his students ran is missing the point. Newton's legacy is not the championships he won, it's the character and work ethic he instilled in thousands of young men. His contribution to society is hard to measure.

On purpose, I didn't talk about that. York has good marketing.

80% of his athletes learn character from what the man has to say, but 20% learn from the man himself. That first group learns about committment to a cause, putting others before yourself, and where things like running, school, and work fit in life's balance.

That 20% though, learn that you can get what you want when your the best. They learn that they are the best, not what it took to become the best. They learn that the rules are a suggestion, and it's not breaking the rules if you don't get caught. They learn the importance to wearing a different face for your in group and out group; Newton could lead a PhD program in that. They learn that domination of your peers, not leadership, is to be strived for.

There are two lawsuits against Newton that I am aware of. I could, and many others here could, tell stories of the nefarious tactics he would send his kids on. Sending JV runners to instigate a fight and DQ with other competitors. Knocking kids off the bridge at Detweiler. Encouraging athletes to and engaging himself in shi t talking before and during the race (but not after. Remember kids, sportsmanship and whatnot). Illegal recruiting tactics. Illegal summer contact. Illegal transportation to meets. Eligibilty/grade manipulation. Credits/class hours manipulation.

York has good marketing. But I could teach kids more about character from watching what York does and doesn't do than most kids learn as a part of York itself.

Who's your hs's best? wrote:

George II wrote:

He's coached amazing high school teams, but ran his kids into the ground. Over 60 years Don Sage is the only relevant alum, and he never broke 24:30, 14:00 or 3:39.

I hate criticisms like this. It's not Newton's fault that the best coach most of his athletes ever had was...HIM. That's why they didn't improve as much in high school.

If you were recruiting two 9:10 guys and one ran for York and one for another school, obviously you should pick the other kid. It's not because the York kid is OVER trained but because he is WELL trained. The kid who had worse HS coaching but ran the same PR probably has much more upside.

I went to a pretty crappy HS program where we ran 55 max in the summer and 30 max in season. All the mileage was really fast, we had zero threshold work and all of the speed workouts were to be run as hard as possible every single rep. Almost all of the kids that run in college from my program get a TON better, but not top D1 level good, and no one got scholarships either, most go to D3/D2 schools. There are some programs in my area that always beat up on our team and I always told myself that they won't do anything in college, and most don't, but they get to be fast in high school and get an opportunity to get money to run somewhere, whereas everyone that ran in my program runs at D3/D2 with no money and gets to about the same level as those faster guys from high school get to in college.

Looking back, I would have loved to run in that great program in high school and actually done well. I still think I would've went D3, like I did, but I could have kept my options open with money from another school, and maybe could've gotten into a better academic program at a crappy D1 school, although the program for my major at the D3 school I am at is very good, it would've been nice to have other school options where I could run.

The Big Fig!

Sounds like Big D-1 football or basketball - now we are getting somewhere!

"There are two lawsuits against Newton that I am aware of. I could, and many others here could, tell stories of the nefarious tactics he would send his kids on. Sending JV runners to instigate a fight and DQ with other competitors. Knocking kids off the bridge at Detweiler. Encouraging athletes to and engaging himself in shi t talking before and during the race (but not after. Remember kids, sportsmanship and whatnot). Illegal recruiting tactics. Illegal summer contact. Illegal transportation to meets. Eligibilty/grade manipulation. Credits/class hours manipulation."

I had a summer job in college where my boss was a female in her late-20s who had graduated from York High School. When she found out I was a college XC/T&F runner, we often talked about York XC. She loved to brag about how her prom date was a Top 7 guy on the team. It was still a huge deal to her 10+ years later. She said every girl in her high school wanted to date a XC runner, especially one in the top 7. She made it sound like being a XC runner at York was about like being a football player at Alabama. From the picture she painted, the whole culture at York High School revolved around cross country. Cheerleaders and pep band at meets, pep rallies in the gym, etc... It was like what you hear about high school football being in Texas. How Joe Newton managed to get so many non-runners to care so much about cross country is beyond me. He clearly had some kind of motivational/inspirational gift.

I ran an indoor 2M in the 70's against York and beat all their guys. That was a huge accomplishment back then and it's still meaningful today. Coach Newton is right up there with Vince Lombardi in my book.

Legend. I ran far behind his Dukes when I ran XC. I didn't realize until after how much of a difference good coaching makes.

I topped out at 16:30 with shitty coaching. Would I have preferred to have reached my potential at 15:30 or whatever under Joe Newton? You bet. I worked as hard as I knew to. But I just didn't know very much.

RacingtheCanteloupe wrote:

If he let his less durable or often injured kids run less than 80-100 mpw as seniors and still be part of the JV squad, more power to him.

Joe routinely had dozens of seniors (all ability levels) in his program.

A solid majority of teams have fewer runners, total, than the number of seniors on Joe's teams.

Hippo wrote:

DiscoGary wrote:

Everyone talking about the times his students ran is missing the point. Newton's legacy is not the championships he won, it's the character and work ethic he instilled in thousands of young men. His contribution to society is hard to measure.

York has good marketing. But I could teach kids more about character from watching what York does and doesn't do than most kids learn as a part of York itself.

I'm not a York guy. But even arthritic and stooped, he's still a giant.

Once at a York practice, an alum showed up and talked to the kids. He was wearing clothing with United Airlines written on it and it looked like he had just come from work. He said, "Today was my last day of work. I worked 30 years for United Airlines and I took pride in my job every day (I think he was a mechanic.) I did the best I could every day. Every day I tried to do my job as well as it could be done. I was never late to work,. Ever. Not a single time in 30 years. I showed up every day. I learned those lessons right here, from Mr. Newton at cross country practice. You young men don't realize how lucky you are to have Mr. Newton, not only as such a great coach but teaching you lessons that will make you a better person in every part of your life."

Any of his former runners now coaching at any level? Would think that Coach Newton has forged a great legacy through those he has coached.

DiscoGary wrote:

Everyone talking about the times his students ran is missing the point. Newton's legacy is not the championships he won, it's the character and work ethic he instilled in thousands of young men. His contribution to society is hard to measure.

Agreed. These young men believed in something. They worked hard because they wanted to.

A kid sleeps three hours a night because of their academic load it's ok. The school play hold rehearsals that go all weekend til midnight. The marching band practices until 9-10 pm in a school night and all day Saturday and that's ok. But a kid runs 70-80 mpw and the coach went too far.

Maybe it was a survival of the fittest program but the work ethic was worth the price to them. I can't get kids to show up an entire week let alone on time. This lack of commitment is supported by their parents. I applaud this coach for creating a culture of commitment. That lesson is more valuable than any AP class or SAT score.

Right. Sounds like that gentleman was part of the 80% that took away the positive lessons. That doesn't mean Newton isn't behind negative lessons as well.

It may seem like I'm trying to belittle Newton's accomplishments as a coach and mentor.

I'm not.

I just want to say that there is more to it. There are negative externalities that come with Newton's legacy that shouldn't be ignored.