2016 NESCAC Cross Country

I can't tell if you're trolling, but you're placing Williams way too low.

The way I see it, we have teams like Colby and Tufts who can land 1-2 punches up front, and teams like Williams and Amherst who have a mix of talent up front and great depth in the 3-7 positions.

Williams takes the biggest hit by losing Bijan, Todd Ford, and Kyle Kistinger, but their rising-juniors have some crazy potential, and could ensure repeat NESCAC victories for the next few years. Ben Decker has always been a player in the Williams scoring, but Liam Simpson and Griffin Colaizzi could also be major factors. They're both 14:45 5k and 3:55 1500m guys. How many times have we seen guys in their position improve by leaps and bounds over the summer? Dan Crowley, Tim Nichols, Luke O'Conner, and Peter Hale come to mind.

Amherst is in a similar position. Crowley will be sorely missed, but the Jeffs have a slew of talent to fill in the gaps. Amherst will have an almost guarenteed 1 spot with Hussein. Raymond Meijer, Craig Nelson, and Kevin Conners (who ran 25:18 at Regionals) will improve from last year, and Tucker Meijer looks primed to jump into Amherst's top 5. They're arguably just as deep as (if not deeper than) Williams. Just look at the scoring from Regionals last year:

https://www.tfrrs.org/results/xc/9203.html

Amherst fought hard and brought in a crazy 1-5 spread, but Williams scraped by with a bit more talent up front.

Luke and Tim could claim 2 of the top 4 spots at NESCAC's and Regionals. Chelimo and Eastmann are going to pull Colby back into the conversation. However, unless their 3-7 guys show up, I don't see them breaking Williams or Amherst.

That being said, watch how the 3-7 guys on Tufts and Colby develop over the course of the season. They could completely change the outcome of NESCACs and Regionals.

Tully Hannan is coming back for his 7th year of eligibility.

I think the primary reason why a team like Williams excels is because Farwell allows walk ons. Sometimes, a guy runs fast in high school and that's his peak, while a guy who runs slow has a lot of potential to grow. If you give the slower kids an opportunity to run, some of them will improve a lot.

size matters wrote:

I think the primary reason why a team like Williams excels is because Farwell allows walk ons.

Bingo. Williams also has a larger team than most others in the 'CAC. Looking at their roster, it looks like they have ~40 dudes, compared with about 10 on Wesleyan, 25 on Amherst, and 20 on Middlebury. More bodies = more opportunities for development.

I think Colby has the second highest upside of any contending team (besides Williams) but also has more question marks than any other top team. Their 3-5 runners Griffin Gagnon '17 (38th at NE Regionals, 4:17 mile indoors), Benard Kibet '18 (39th at NE Regionals, 32:13 at Nescac Track), and Sam Sinkler '18 (29th at Nescac Cross) showed moments of brilliance last fall but lacked consistency. If they can continue to progress while performing more consistently and Chelimo and Eastman regain their 2014 form (2nd and 6th at Nescacs respectively) Colby could compete with any team in the nation.

Its not just about having no cuts. If it was just a matter of opening the team up, everyone would do that. There is a reason teams have cuts.

I think the key is that Williams has more resources than other schools. More resources = more coaching staff, which can support a larger team and give more attention to everyone. Same with NCC. You need to give everyone attention to develop runners, otherwise you end up only focusing on your recruits. The history of the program helps keep everyone focused with slightly less individual attention.

I swear NCC has more coaches / support staff than they have athletes.

Resources wrote:

Its not just about having no cuts. If it was just a matter of opening the team up, everyone would do that. There is a reason teams have cuts.

I think the key is that Williams has more resources than other schools. More resources = more coaching staff, which can support a larger team and give more attention to everyone. Same with NCC. You need to give everyone attention to develop runners, otherwise you end up only focusing on your recruits. The history of the program helps keep everyone focused with slightly less individual attention.

What do you mean, more resources? I checked team websites. It's usual for NESCAC schools to have 3 coaches for both the men's and women's programs, which is what Williams appears to have. Since Amherst is a split team, it has more, and so does Tufts, including Jamie Norton, who runs 4:06 for the mile, since he is Jamie Norton. With the same number of coaches as other schools and far more horses, one could argue that Williams actually gives its athletes less attention than another program.

Success in the sport creates a positive feedback loop. Williams does well, so more top-level recruits apply to Williams, which means Williams continues to do well, which promotes more interest in the team, and so on.

Also, Pete Farwell has been doing this for 40 years. He has more experience running a team and more knowledge of the sport than any other coach in the conference.

I know my bias is showing here, but you can't write off the efforts of the runners either. The current Williams squad trains very hard. When I was running there, the top guys were doing - at most - 75 to 85 miles/week over the summer. Now you have guys like Bijan doing 120. I know he's graduating, but still, the team's weekly mileage has gone up quite a bit.

Willliams coaches are probably the best paid coaches in the conference because they are considered faculty. Why do you think Barron left Tufts?

Amherst: M & W = 5 Coaches ( 2 Head Coaches )

Bates: M & W = 4 Coaches ( 2 Head Coaches )

Bowdoin: M & W = 4 Coaches (1 Head Coach)

Colby: M & W = 4 Coaches ( 2 Head Coaches)

Conn. College M & W = 3 Coaches (2 Head Coaches)

Hamilton: M & W = 5 Coaches ( 2 Head Coaches)

Middlebury: M & W = 5 Coaches ( 2 Head Coaches)

Trinity: M & W = 5 Coaches ( 1 Head Coach )

Tufts: M & W = 8 Coaches ( 2 Head Coaches )

Wesleyan: M & W = 4 Coaches ( 2 Head Coaches)

Williams: M & W = 7 Coaches ( 3 Head Coaches )

I didn't want to jump in again, but where are you getting those figures? Williams has a combined program, so there are 3 coaches combined for both the men's and women's teams. I'm sure this is also true for a few other programs in the NESCAC.

I also think the point about faculty pay only applies to the head coach, which would just be Pete for cross and Ethan Barron for track. I know Pete teaches phys-ed courses in addition to coaching.

This thread seems to be going off the rails. Anyone have predictions for top-15 runners at NESCAC's or something?

Yes, Williams has 7 total coaches.

Pete Farwell (Head Distance / XC)

Nate Hoey (Head Womens Track)

Ethan Barron (Head Mens Track)

2 Distance Assistants

2 Field Event Assistants

1. Who Sayin'

2. 5 cents

3. Eau Koner

4. Heil

5. Ch'elmo

6. Cayahtzee

7. Bart

8. Man of the Rising Sun

9. London Bus

10. (Arr) My Jar

11. Trafalgar commander

12. NESCAC All-Name 1st Team from Midd

13. Ark

14. Some Freshman

15. Ty Enos

For those of you saying Williams has lower academic standards, do you have actual examples of this? Have some of their top guys been rejected from other NESCAC schools due to academics and gone to Williams as a last resort? Personally, I think a bunch of talented kids may just want to run for a very successful coach/program at a great academic institution. As an alum of another NESCAC school, it's certainly frustrating watching them reload every single year with kids my alma mater would love to get, but I think you have to give credit where it is due.

My bad, I didn't realize you were including track as well.

1 Mohamed

2 Tim Nichols

3 Luke O'Connor

4 Peter Hale

5 Chelimo

6 Griffin Colaizzi

7 Brian Rich?

8 Silas Eastman

9 Ben Decker

10 Raymond Meijer

11 Craig Nelson

12 Ascencion Aispuro

13 Noah Williams

14 Smith Alex

15 Ty Enos

10/10 post, but 5 Bills in the top 15? I think you placed Cayahtzee and Bart a little too high up. You really think they will edge out London Bus? Don't sleep on Ark either. Once he finds the One Ring of Power, he'll be a force to be reckoned with.I think "More Ham Ad, Who Sayin'?" will falter and Day Veet Chill Emo will come out on top. I agree that Skywalker and his sidekick Giggles will overcome Pee Tar.

hbdkc53195 wrote:

1. Who Sayin'

2. 5 cents

3. Eau Koner

4. Heil

5. Ch'elmo

6. Cayahtzee

7. Bart

8. Man of the Rising Sun

9. London Bus

10. (Arr) My Jar

11. Trafalgar commander

12. NESCAC All-Name 1st Team from Midd

13. Ark

14. Some Freshman

15. Ty Enos

Number 7 is Liam (Bart) Simpson

Duh Vin Cheeze Code wrote:

1 Mohamed

2 Tim Nichols

3 Luke O'Connor

4 Peter Hale

5 Chelimo

6 Griffin Colaizzi

7 Brian Rich?

8 Silas Eastman

9 Ben Decker

10 Raymond Meijer

11 Craig Nelson

12 Ascencion Aispuro

13 Noah Williams

14 Smith Alex

15 Ty Enos

Are we going to ignore Bosworth? I think he can finish in the top 7 at NESCACs.