What breathing pattern do you use?

Of course, what you are trying to do when working hard is to ventilate the lungs as well as you can. A slower deeper rhythm allows larger tidal volume, but less frequency. Frequency X tidal volume equals minute volume of ventilation. A faster frequency may lead to smaller tidal volume so a rate of 30 (3-3 rhythm) may be associated with a 4-liter minute volume and increasing to 45 may still allow a 3-liter tidal volume, so 30X4=120 and 45X3=135 -- more total volume per minute and better ventilation. A 2-1 rhythm (60 breaths per minute) may still allow a 2.5-liter tidal volume so you get to move 150 liters a minute, but going to 1-1 (90 breaths per minute) may drop tidal volume to 1-1/2 liters tidal volume so total minute ventilation is down to 135, and as someone pointed out dead-space air is also increased, as is the work of breathing, which makes 1-1 not too effective (but possibly necessary for someone with a problem). The numbers above are just examples and not fact for anyone in particular. When I report breathing rhythms of runners I mainly do so just to point out what the better runners do, which I am sure is based on what they eventually find does the best job of ventilating the lungs. If a beginner may save some learning time then it's worth pointing out what you may eventually learn, but why wait

hot and heavy.

It's a math question. Daniels bases his breathing pattern on the assumption that we are all running 180 steps per minute, which may not be true for some. A 2-2 pattern would equate to 45 breathes per minute, a 3-3 pattern to 30. Knowing your breathing pattern is only useful if you know how many breathes you take at certain speeds (5k speed, 10k speed, half-marathon speed, marathon speed, etc.) and how many steps you take per minute. It could be useful at the beginning of a race to see that you don't go out too fast. I think it's just a very anal way of looking at running. If you've read Daniels you should be able to tell that he overanalizes things a bit much.

Alan

Runningart2004 wrote: If you've read Daniels you should be able to tell that he overanalizes things a bit much. Alan

LOL! Like a couple posts prior to yours? I can't tell if this was advertent or inadvertent, but it's hilarious nonetheless.

I tend to be in 4-4 or 3-3 when going easy, but sometimes go 4-3 just to practice an odd cadence. Going 2-1 requires good ventilation. Not everyone can expell a full tank in a single step, and that leaves some CO2 taking up space.

Constructive wrote:

I ran for seven years and 14,000 miles without ever once thinking about a breathing pattern.

If Jack Daniels seriously suggested (in writing) to breathe in a rhythm with your footfalls, well, then he is dumber than I thought.

Short career! Maybe you should have used Daniels ideas.

For me, generally...

I find I breath 3:3 when running easy.

2:2 at marathon pace.

2:1 (in:out) at 5k-HM.

1:1 for 400-1500.

I don't buy that 1:1 is inefficient, for me anyway. My body naturally goes to it once I hit VO2max+ paces.

out on a limb wrote:

... but anything approaching marathon pace or faster I switch to 1-1. I attribute it to my asthma - I must have ridiculously low lung capacity.

Maybe you have asthma because you breathe too fast and shallow?

2:2 might be more efficient than 1:1 (fewer breaths per minute but larger ones)

Does anyone breathe out longer than in? Eg 2:1 or 3:2 ?

Only Hobby Joggers consciously pay attention to breathing patterns.

People actually think about this stuff while they're running? Your body does a great job of regulating respiration on its own, and it has information available to it that you aren't conscious of (arterial CO2/H+ concentration, CO2 concentration in the brain, the amount of blood and air reaching each individual alveoli, etc.). Your pons and medulla are set up to handle this type of decision making way better than your cerebral cortex.

Even if there was some small benefit to consciously altering your breathing, I imagine that this benefit would be offset by the added mental effort associated with thinking about breathing the whole time. When I race, I'm dialed in on where my competitors are and what I have to do to beat them. Thinking "breath in, breath out; breath in, breath out; breath in, breath out" the whole time would be fatal to the establishment of any kind of rhythm.

wondering about breathing wrote:

Does anyone breathe out longer than in? Eg 2:1 or 3:2 ?

I usually to 2-in, 1-out at quick paces, and have tried to switch to 1-in, 2-out. Doesn't feel good. I think most people find equal in-out or more in to be better.

I prefer to emulate latin polyrhythms with my breathing against the straight beat of my feet. And sometimes i will switch my breathing to 4/4 and then run polyrythmic steps...

don't worry about it wrote:

People actually think about this stuff while they're running?

Even if there was some small benefit to consciously altering your breathing, I imagine that this benefit would be offset by the added mental effort associated with thinking about breathing the whole time. When I race, I'm dialed in on where my competitors are and what I have to do to beat them. Thinking "breath in, breath out; breath in, breath out; breath in, breath out" the whole time would be fatal to the establishment of any kind of rhythm.

Some of us might have more mental capacity available, so it's not as hard for us as it is for you.

Also, most people here are noting the rhythm at different speeds, not deliberately altering the rate. I don't think anyone is saying to ignore the competition and focus on a 2-1 breathing rhythm. But that could just be my big brain applied to reading comprehension.

It doesn't take much effort to notice the rhythm of your breathing. For ex-swimmers it is basically impossible not to.

It's less a matter of mental capacity and more a matter of breaking out of the tunnel vision that goes along with racing. I have the mental capacity to think about a whole lot of irrelevant things while I'm running. But I don't because I'd rather just tune everything else out and worry about running two laps around the track faster than everyone else.

Perhaps if you could explain the benefit of monitoring my breathing, I might give it a try. Am I going to run faster because I thought about my breathing during the race? If not, what is the point?

Listen, if you can't see the benefit of it, don't do it.

I can see the training benefit of HR monitors on training runs (or power meters for cycling), although I don't use them. I can see the training benefit of pace information from a watch, although I don't use a Garmin. But it isn't confusing to me how someone would find that useful.

As for breathing rate, this isn't a matter of "monitoring" If that is how you think of it I am not surprised it seems like such a big distraction to you. It is just being aware. Do you "monitor" your level of quad pain during a race? No. Are you aware of it? Probably.

There is all sorts of data available to you from your body. Pain, fatigue, breathing rate, etc. You can use or ignore this as much as you like. One of the many things I would notice 10 miles into a marathon would be my breathing. I don't think anyone here is talking about counting steps per breath in a championship 800. Can you get this?

Always 3-3 for easy runs/tempo work.

I would use my need to switch over to 2-2 in a distance race as a gauge for my pacing. If going at PR pace, I should switch from 3-3 to 2-2 at about one mile into a 5k, two miles into an 8k, and about 10k into a half marathon.

If I am running a ten mile race I start the first mile at a 3-3 pattern, after a have a good rhythm and am warmed up by the second mile a switch to a 2-2 pattern. at about mile 6 through 8 I switch to a 1-1 pattern. This works well. I sustain that till about mile 8 /8.5 that a gradually switch to a regular but rapid gasp for air.

During the last 1/4 mile I do this open mouth, head down, stagger to the finish. Volunteers come up to me and ask me if I'm alright and need help, I wave they off but make sure to keep my regular gasping for air consistent.

It takes practice but works well for me.

Someone advocated 3:2 breathing so the diaphragm movement patterns are alternated with the legs. I guess it makes some sense that you're not always inhaling in sync with the same leg. I'm not sure if equal distribution of leg side to diaphragm movement pattern at the expense of an asymmetric breathing pattern is really better.

3 / 2 Pattern using my nose for IN , and I exhale through my Gills.

guilly wrote:

Jack Daniels' generally advocates a "2-2" breathing pattern, meaning you breathe in every two steps, breathe out every two steps. However, Daniels' emphasizes that on an "easy run" you should be able to breathe 3-3 or 4-4 without any problem.

I always use is "1-1" breathing pattern, for everything.

Each time I breathe in, I breathe out, and each time I breathe out, I breathe in.