Mo vs El G in slow 5000m

Who wins wrote:

Who wins this one? Farah vs 2003/2004 El G in a championship 5000m race.

I think El G would win, in 2004 he was very, very good over the 1500/5k, I'd say the best ever by a margin. When he did the 1500/5k double he beat Lagat and Bekele, after they had run 3:27 and 12:37 respectively that Summer.

I think he could have run closer to 12:40, his 12:50 was literally his first attempt where he said himself he wanted to grasp the 'rhythm' of 5000m running. To think he couldn't have gone 1% faster after his year of focusing on it and with a few more proper attempts would be ludicrous.

I guess after winning the Olympic double if he felt he couldn't quite make the 12:37 record then there was no point in setting up a fast race to attempt it.

pools are up wrote:

Metric Miler wrote:

OK so I never said it is as difficult as winning world's or the Olympic's but back anyway back to the actually point...

Farah is tactically very good. In championships he rules.

You seem to have forgotten that Farah has won gold at the Olympics twice, and world champs 5 times, so er who cares if you don't think the Euro's count.

He didn't say difficult. He said comparable. You have the worst reading competition.

Farah has only demonstrated being tactically good at one tactic. Sit and kick. He never surges or runs a fast race. He is very good at sitting and kicking. He has not demonstrated additional tactics.

May I ask then, in this context how is 'difficult' any different to 'comparable'?

He said words to the effect that the Euro's don't count because they aren't comparable to to World's or Olympic's. i.e. they aren't as hard.

Thing is that tactic works. We have no way of guessing what would happen if Farah was taken around at world record schedule.

Would he drop off early and hope the leaders falter or try and hang on to squeeze past in the last 10m? It is hard to say.

I guess you have to make your mind up about what happened in the 5000m in London. Either Farah knew that the guys who had just run amazingly in Paris were much faster than him and so he tactically slowed the race right down until it got into his territory (I know he was at the back but they have big screens). Or, Farah knew from training he was just so much faster than these guys that he used no tactics at all and just sat in the race letting the others dictate the pace, safe in the knowledge that he could win whatever happened.

Metric Miler wrote:

May I ask then, in this context how is 'difficult' any different to 'comparable'?

He said words to the effect that the Euro's don't count because they aren't comparable to to World's or Olympic's. i.e. they aren't as hard.

Thing is that tactic works. We have no way of guessing what would happen if Farah was taken around at world record schedule.

Would he drop off early and hope the leaders falter or try and hang on to squeeze past in the last 10m? It is hard to say.

Stop. He didn't say "ie not as hard". He said not comparable.

Euros aren't comparable because tactics aren't needed. He is the fastest guy by an average of 30+ seconds in Europe. It's just not comparable.

If Farah has only demonstrated mastery of ONE tactic, you can't say he's a great tactical runner. Since he only demonstrates one tactic, all you can say is that he is a great sit and kick tactical runner.

Metric Miler wrote:

Who wins wrote:

Who wins this one? Farah vs 2003/2004 El G in a championship 5000m race.

I think El G would win, in 2004 he was very, very good over the 1500/5k, I'd say the best ever by a margin. When he did the 1500/5k double he beat Lagat and Bekele, after they had run 3:27 and 12:37 respectively that Summer..

I could never understand why Bekele allowed the pace to be so slow in that 5,000m

El G would win a slow 5,000 because even if it went from a mile out he has the milers edge

What are you talking about? He said the African's aren't at Euros and they are the greatest source of competition. Therefore winning Europeans is not as difficult as worlds. Reinforced by the fact you said he is 30s better than anyone.

I'm not sure the point you are trying to make here. I listed a good number of races that Farah has won tactically, as in none have been flat out time trials. One poster strongly disliked the inclusion of the Euros, I have since said let's discount the Euro's and Farah has still won a shed load of big titles tactically, but nobody has anything intelligent to say in response.

I would argue that Farah has shown he can and will use the tactics necessary to win the race. To say Farah just sits and kicks is a simplification as every race is different. You saw in the 10k in Beijing he went out into lane 8 to collect some water only to pour it on his head, pure mind games, he moved up from the back when he sensed the pace picking up and later in the race he repeatedly took the lead to show Kamworor he was still there.

Respond to my comment about London 2012. If you think Farah can make a field of 15 run into his territory does that not make him a tactical genius?

I have to agree with Metric Miler. You are being pedantic. The poster was implying that Europeans don't count because they are easier to win as not as much talent is competing in them. Ergo, they are not as difficult.

While I agree the Europeans are, currently, an easier championship to win, Metric Miler was clearly using them, correctly, to back up his point that Farah has an almost spotless record in big meets.

It should be noted that back in the day, the Europeans were a very high ranking medal to win, especially in some events. Before the Worlds came along in 83, they were the biggest event outside the Olympics. Unfortunately, their significance has diminished in recent years with the holding of the Worlds every 2 years and the bizarre decision to now hold the Europeans every 2 years, and to be the same season as the Olympics!

A "European Champion" now carries little weight on the world stage, but it still represents a good opportunity to show tactical nouse.

I also agree that Mo is a great tactical runner. He runs the perfect tactics for him to win. The fact that those around him haven't attempted a range of different tactics to try and beat him, is a reflection of their lack of confidence and poor tactical awareness, rather than a criticism of Farah.

In terms of the OP's original question, I would plump for Farah in races over 13:10.

What I will also add is that this question is somewhat loaded in that I think EL G was almost certainly doped. While I'm not saying Farah is whiter than white, I certainly don't think he is doing anything give my him the sort of advantage EL G got from competing in the EPO era.

Typical letsrunner wrote:

1. Bekele

2. Geb

3. El G

4. Komen

5. All other distance runners ever

6. Mo Farah

7. Rupp

Are you forgetting the guy who did the 1500m/5k double at the World Championships, Bernard Lagat??

It makes you wonder, if the guy is apparently slow but also tactically inept, how has he won so many medals? Maybe the championship races are all fixed.

El G all day. Mo has been good in tactical races over the past several years, but El G raced in a more competitive era. You can chalk it up to blatant doping, but that's still happening now and I would be shocked if Farah was 100% clean.

El G and Bekele were both better than Farah. A better race might be Lagat vs Farah over 5000m.

Farah got outkicked by Jeilan, LMAO!

I have always defended Mo against his detractors, but it is foolish to compare PGOAT Farah to GOAT El G.

Bad Wigins wrote:

I have always defended Mo against his detractors, but it is foolish to compare PGOAT Farah to GOAT El G.

I posted this but it got lost in the swamp:

I think El G would win, in 2004 he was very, very good over the 1500/5k, I'd say the best ever by a margin. When he did the 1500/5k double he beat Lagat and Bekele, after they had run 3:27 and 12:37 respectively that Summer.

I think he could have run closer to 12:40, his 12:50 was literally his first attempt where he said himself he wanted to grasp the 'rhythm' of 5000m running. To think he couldn't have gone 1% faster after his year of focusing on it and with a few more proper attempts would be ludicrous.

I guess after winning the Olympic double if he felt he couldn't quite make the 12:37 record then there was no point in setting up a fast race to attempt it.

I was not so much defending Mo Farah as just countering the arguments made by certain posters that are completely false. The argument I found myself falling into with some posters here was that firstly Mo Farah apparently doesn't have a good tactical record/isn't a good tactical racer, then it was that Euro's aren't a major competition (but I avoided that one) and then there was a linguistics argument over one of my posts.

For some reason, when Farah comes up as a subject, droves crawl out of their basements to make arguments about everything with the ultimate aim to prove that Farah hasn't won any medals, is a confirmed doper and slower than college kids.

I saw an interview of Bekele where he basically says the same thing...looking back, he is embarrassed when he thinks of that race and his tactics.

ukathleticscoach wrote:

Metric Miler wrote:

I think El G would win, in 2004 he was very, very good over the 1500/5k, I'd say the best ever by a margin. When he did the 1500/5k double he beat Lagat and Bekele, after they had run 3:27 and 12:37 respectively that Summer..

I could never understand why Bekele allowed the pace to be so slow in that 5,000m

El G would win a slow 5,000 because even if it went from a mile out he has the milers edge

Well Bekele's bigger mistake was his kick in the 10,000m as he ran the last 400m in 53 seconds, when he could have "coasted" a 56 and still won by more than a second. Bekele was not fully recovered from the 10,000m which is part of the reason he did not go earlier.

bottom line for slow race to bell :

hicham ~ 47-flat speed

mo ~ 49-flat/low

hicham by 10m+

a 328 Moe has a shot.

toss up.

ventolin^3 wrote:

bottom line for slow race to bell :

hicham ~ 47-flat speed

mo ~ 49-flat/low

hicham by 10m+

So why didn't Hicham beat Bekele by 10m+

i think moscow 2013 mo would have been very hard to beat as much as i'd like to endorse el guerrouj. :(

13:27 with 2:22 last kilometer.

longjack wrote:

a 328 Moe has a shot.

El G would have run 3:23 on that dirty track