top Canadian coach calls out drug cheats beating his athletes

what happened to Hanna woodhouse from Meaford coyotes? she ran for Canada as a junior then went to Guelph. She was not at AO's xc this year and was not at OUA to cheer her "team" on.

A wise man once said "Never trust a man with two first names". Dave Scott Thomas has three first names. What does that tell you?

Which athletes have you stolen from their program and what club that started around 1997 are you referencing?

Anyone who actually thinks people are just jealous of Cheat River is either willfully ignorant or doesn't follow the Canadian scene very closely. There has been so much crap linked back to this group over the past several years that people are just fed up.

No parent in their right mind would send their kid to that School / team

Thank god for

www.LetsRun.com

since Cheat River now owns trackie.ca not a negative word can be posted over there about #Guelph :(

You can't handle the truth?

Dana, Meredith, and Lydia have all moved on, as far as I know. Meredith is a practicing lawyer out in BC, and Dana and Lydia possibly race locally. Gen is, of course, running quite well.

Much of the hate has to do with the way SR has garnered their success. They're not "stepping on toes." At this point, there is not really any difference between AC and SR, since Moulton and Scott-Thomas or one of their athletes or other coaches are involved in every selection committee that could be relevant to them. They and their buddies at AC have been circumventing the rules everyone else has to follow to unfairly give SR an advantage in pretty much everything. They were initially awarded Canadian XC without having a valid bid. They were initially awarded the Canadian 10,000m championships without having a valid bid (the rules for this year were changed to make sure they could get it this time). They have had runners placed on teams when other athletes were more eligible. They have now obtained Quest for Gold funding for some of their athletes who didn't meet the criteria while others who did meet the criteria got nothing. Those are most of the major ones from the last couple of years. Makes you wonder what else they've been doing.

I personally don't feel they have strong development, either, so that leads to some of my feelings toward them. I don't think I can name an athlete who developed there as a junior (pre-university) and is currently competing successfully in senior years, even if I count success pretty broadly as just continuing in the sport, racing and running things like senior provincials or nationals. I know of a handful of their university athletes who have graduated and continued for a while, but they have close to a 100% attrition rate for graduating university athletes continuing in the sport long term. Given that they have recruited many of the top juniors over the last 10 years, I count that as poor development. They pretty much only focus on those few they think have international class potential, as do the people who claim they have strong development. They get most of those long-term injured, and they have managed to succeed with a very small number of the rest.

"but they have close to a 100% attrition rate for graduating university athletes continuing in the sport long term."

This is not true. You might want to change the 100.

Keep the name Ghazarian in the back of your mind for future ref.

519905416 wrote:

Keep the name Ghazarian in the back of your mind for future ref.

DST doesn't coach Ghazarian (or any of the non-UofG junior athletes in Speed River) though...

fred wrote:

"but they have close to a 100% attrition rate for graduating university athletes continuing in the sport long term."

This is not true. You might want to change the 100.

So far, they have Reid Coolsaet and I suppose Alex Genest as graduating athletes continuing in the sport long term. I don't consider the typical 1-3 years their athletes put in before quitting to be long term. There have been a handful of others who continued, like Taylor Murphy. Over 15+ years, for a large program that's graduating a fairly large number each year, that's close to 100%. Not changing it. I'm not saying other programs are any better, but everyone claims SR is better and I don't agree. You obviously disagree with me, and that's fine.

Read: " back of your mind for future ref."

when he does coach her, she will vanish like the rest of the girls.

Alex doesn't count - he did his first few years in Sherbrooke.

notreallyafan wrote:

fred wrote:

"but they have close to a 100% attrition rate for graduating university athletes continuing in the sport long term."

This is not true. You might want to change the 100.

So far, they have Reid Coolsaet and I suppose Alex Genest as graduating athletes continuing in the sport long term. I don't consider the typical 1-3 years their athletes put in before quitting to be long term. There have been a handful of others who continued, like Taylor Murphy. Over 15+ years, for a large program that's graduating a fairly large number each year, that's close to 100%. Not changing it. I'm not saying other programs are any better, but everyone claims SR is better and I don't agree. You obviously disagree with me, and that's fine.

"they have close to a 100% attrition rate for graduating university athletes continuing in the sport long term"

These are his words. Coming out of Dave's university program, and continuing in the sport long term.

I think that I can find 10 runners ( male and female ) who continued in the sport long term. So it is not 100%.

You aren't getting it. "Close to 100%" is not the same thing as "100%." I didn't say it is 100%. You are nitpicking something that was never said. If you can find 10 runners, male and female, who continued in the sport long term, that is still close to 100%. I would put it at around 90-95%. I consider that close to 100%.

This isn't a Guelph-only problem. This is a problem you'll find in all of North America. Schools take in all of the top talent and by the time they're done with them almost all of them have lost interest in continuing. If I saw 5 graduate each year and even 2-3 of them continue in the sport for another 10 years, I would consider that an extremely successful program at this point. Much more successful than I consider anything in Canada.

We always hear about how distance runners hit their physiological peaks in their mid-to-late 20s. But if 95% of the top runners quit around ages 20-21, they have not even come close to developing fully. So how can we say a program has "strong senior development" when no one's developing those seniors they're producing?

This is the difference between there being no one at the Ontario Senior XC race and there being 500, or 1000 in each race, which I think would be far better for the sport in the long term than sending one or two athletes to the World Doping Championships. Say there are 15 universities and colleges with distance programs in Ontario, and there are 10 graduates from each of those schools each year who competed for those schools, 5 of each gender. This is 75 men and 75 women each year. Over the course of the 8-9 years it takes those athletes to reach early master's running at age 30, they would compete in the Ontario Championship. So 9 years from now there are 650 women in the race instead of 23, or maybe there are 700 men instead of 34. Not to mention all the people who get cut from teams, or who never even try out but who ran in high school.

The reason I pick on Guelph/SR specifically is because so many people think so highly of them, so they get to be held to a higher standard. They get a lot of the top talent. And they get aren't doing a good job of keeping that talent healthy and in the sport in the five years they have them. I expect better of them because I'm told to expect better of them. I expect better of the rest of the programs too, but nobody's going around claiming those other programs are the future of the sport, or handing them funds their athletes didn't earn the selection points for, or sneaking things through selection committees when they didn't earn it.

DST does not give a flying fart what those kids do post college.

For the most part it's just one big keg party.

If you have daughters, send them elsewhere!

Agree 100% with this post, very well said.

"who continued in the sport long term, that is still close to 100%. I would put it at around 90-95%. I consider that close to 100%."

90% isn't close to 100%. Go back to school

Why would you continue on if you can't run a 3:36 for 1500. Of course they don't continue on, they don't have any talent to run at the next level.

And the guys that do have talent quit because they can't compete with the dopers. So don't blame it on the coach.

Millenials are lazy slackers anyway.

With that base they should jump into the marathon mix and wind some money or Timmy's gift cards or a pair of socks or something.

#EgoCheck

or coach made them hate running?