RE: If you believe in the concept of Performance Enhancing Drugs......

How do you explain late stage career resurgence of Eddy H and Regina Jacobs after they started taking EPO? It was all psychological right??

Jon Orange wrote:

Then do you believe that to be the best that you can be, you have to take drugs?

I have to address this belief, it's the concept that's going to kill the sport.

Believe in human physiology people please, not pharmacology.

You're wrong, and a complete idiot. However, since athletes aren't allowed to take these performance enhancing drugs, then you have nothing to worry about. As long as athletes don't cheat/break the rules by taking drugs, under your view, they will do the best they possibly can. It's win win for you.

So, just shut up. Since these drugs, which you think are totally useless for performance, are often harmful to long term health, it's a good thing they are banned. Hopefully athletes won't take them. But, they don't need to believe in your utter nonsense, they just need to not break the rules. So, instead of endlessly spouting off with your stupidity, why not just ask people to do what is correct - don't break the rules. Is it that so hard? Just don't break the rules. See - no need to preach your idiotic beliefs - you have a common goal (to not use PED's) that is achieved by simply asking people to not break rules/cheat. Easy. No need to enter crazy land.

Now please, shut the hell up. Go back to talking about chem trails or whatever else idiots like you do in your spare time.

Jon Orange wrote:

Believer of Bieber wrote:

So john, does any medical substance used on the human body work? Let's start at the very bottom, how about a rudimentary substance like aspirin, or salicylic acid? Does it thin the blood and therefore increase flow or not?

I'm not saying that drugs don't have effects. But to make the claim that some drugs improve athletic performance shows a lack of knowledge of physiology. You are making a grand leap into a new world of belief that ignores what really improves performance, namely improved efficiency of movement.

It's a question of conceptual models of performance. If you don't know your physiology, which 99.999% of people don't it's easy to construct a drug mythology around the sport.

So is it your belief that PEDs don't work at all? How do you explain bodybuilding and powerlifting?

Please, please please, don't feed the troll. My post from the last thread I saw him:

Please, please, please, don't feed the troll

You can be the best YOU can be without drugs but together you AND drugs are an improved team.

Guys on heroin are harder to catch according to the cops.

Is 30 better than 40 then? I'm going to give blood tomorrow and drink lots of water.

Jon Orange wrote:

Then do you believe that to be the best that you can be, you have to take drugs?

I have to address this belief, it's the concept that's going to kill the sport.

Believe in human physiology people please, not pharmacology.

The truth is that an answer to your question does not really exist. Will doping enable a person to run faster? Absolutely. It's really not any different than thinking getting essential nutrients, sufficient protein, and sleeping well will help performance.

Human physiology certainly plays it's role, but it's also readily apparent human physiology can be improved, and no logical precedent or reason to believe it can't. Drugs are just one method of doing so.

Gene doping is rather the end game of doping in athletics. It's quite probable that once we know enough we would be able to set up peoples genes such that they have more muscle, more mitochondria, have greater power/weight ratios...or at the extreme, almost absurdist, modify people such that instead of two legs they can be four legged running machines akin to a cheetah. Or even invent novel body plans not yet seen, like hypothetical people having mechanical wheels in place of legs.

It all comes down to what you consider to be "reaching your potential". Taken out to extreme levels, such as unrestricted genetic modification, no human ever gets anywhere near their potential. Taken to mean "under conditions representative of the typical middle class citizen" then there are some athletes that reach their potential.

You can't answer the question.

EPO Cheats Out wrote:

How do you explain late stage career resurgence of Eddy H and Regina Jacobs after they started taking EPO? It was all psychological right??

Yes. How do you explain my late career surge. Must be drugs right?

Answer the question. What are you afraid of?

Ho Hum wrote:

Jon Orange wrote:

I'm not saying that drugs don't have effects. But to make the claim that some drugs improve athletic performance shows a lack of knowledge of physiology. You are making a grand leap into a new world of belief that ignores what really improves performance, namely improved efficiency of movement.

It's a question of conceptual models of performance. If you don't know your physiology, which 99.999% of people don't it's easy to construct a drug mythology around the sport.

So is it your belief that PEDs don't work at all? How do you explain bodybuilding and powerlifting?

What's your point? Do you think that those sports don't involve neural efficiency too?

Thank you for those two examples Jon - Brailsford and Pitsiladis.

I think that Brailsford has two opinions on this subject - private and public. For Sky he claims that ped's dont work, but privately he holds other views. I know I cant expect you to believe me, but there isnt much I can do about it.

Yannis is quite different. Here is a link to some research he was involved in that shows that athletes improved after taking epo

http://eprints.brighton.ac.uk/11816/

I hope that link works, and if it does perhaps you will kindly explain why ped's dont work.

I'm not trolling. Read my posts above and educatate yourself about real physiology.

Why can't you do it? Because you think you know it all? You have no idea about neural efficiency. Stop sulking because I showed your ignorance.

Jon Orange wrote:

EPO Cheats Out wrote:

How do you explain late stage career resurgence of Eddy H and Regina Jacobs after they started taking EPO? It was all psychological right??

Yes. How do you explain my late career surge. Must be drugs right?

What big races have you won?

People have answered his questions many times, no need to

do it again.

Jon, curious to know what the 'orange' in your name refers to? You got a bad fake tan?

Barney Castle wrote:

Thank you for those two examples Jon - Brailsford and Pitsiladis.

I think that Brailsford has two opinions on this subject - private and public. For Sky he claims that ped's dont work, but privately he holds other views. I know I cant expect you to believe me, but there isnt much I can do about it.

Yannis is quite different. Here is a link to some research he was involved in that shows that athletes improved after taking epo

http://eprints.brighton.ac.uk/11816/

I hope that link works, and if it does perhaps you will kindly explain why ped's dont work.

You're welcome. Please read the discussion of that study you posted. It supports my view. The authors aren't as ignorant of neural factors as other physiologists. Pitsiladis himself has commented on this and questioned the drug dogma.

How can you know what Dave Brailsford thinks privately? He has to be careful with what he says to which cyclists he works with. It's more than just a game of psychology.

'Performance Enhancing Drugs' is a philosophical concept that is wrapped up in pseudoscience. It has more to do with psychology than physiology.

Jon Orange wrote:

EPO Cheats Out wrote:

How do you explain late stage career resurgence of Eddy H and Regina Jacobs after they started taking EPO? It was all psychological right??

Yes. How do you explain my late career surge. Must be drugs right?

Maybe. What were you taking?

to be the best you can be,no you dont have to take drugs.i work out,and ive got a few muscles,and i dont take drugs.im being the best i can be.do i think most top leval athletes,weightlifters,cyclists,swimmers,pro footballers and power lifters take drugs?you bet i do.theyve got lots of talent and drive,to begin with,but throw a molotov cocktail of drugs into the mix,and they become cyborgs,and super human.this has been happening for decades,now.even at the top leval though there will always be people more naturally talented,in the first place.