You are a drug apologist and get linked in with J.R., Jon Orange, and ghost.
Cyclist today are using drugs. They are using drugs because they work. The idea that we are in some post-EPO (or even worse, post-PED) era is entirely fictitious and dangerous.
No you fool. I'm not a drug apologist at all. You are drug obsessed. What does it take to show you that no-one needs drugs to produce these power outputs?
Once again, The "Drugs Don't Work" Troll latches on to any drug-related thread on this forum like a lamprey on a trout.
Although Lance is a sad human being, the one thing everyone agrees on is that he is smart as $#@^. I would trust the guy who experimented with every drug and method out there to figure out what ACTUALLY works in the field. Lance is the world's greatest drug empiricist, and he has demonstrated that drugs and blood cheating work, and work very well.
You people are stupid. What does it take to show you that cyclists today can produce the same power outputs as cyclists from the EPO era.
When you are show the data, all you can say is HE MUST BE DOPED!
Pure stupidity, on an on year after year.
yawn wrote:
You people are stupid. What does it take to show you that cyclists today can produce the same power outputs as cyclists from the EPO era.
When you are show the data, all you can say is HE MUST BE DOPED!
Pure stupidity, on an on year after year.
What do power outputs have to do with EPO?
Ask Mr. Obvious, he thinks he know stuff. Most poster of a certain age have similar beliefs. It's as though we are not allowed to question these sacred beliefs. That's the real reason why we have a doping problem.
yawn wrote:
It's as though we are not allowed to question these sacred beliefs. That's the real reason why we have a doping problem.
Question anything you want. Sticking your fingers in your ears and chanting along with J.R. and Jon Orange, "Drugs don't work" is not a productive engagement in any conversation. Provide some evidence.
I did just that on the previous page.
http://sportsscientists.com/2011/07/the-tour-de-france-power-2011-outputs-from-the-outside-in/
It just hit me - the lance apologists are the same people who love donny trump!
yawn wrote:
I didn't post it. But I did see some of it yesterday. I think he was a fantastic athlete. To me the biggest shame, is the obsession everyone had and still has with drugs. So stupid. He was an awesome competitor. I am glad that people are starting to realise that.
He sounds like the same guy that was on Carmichael's doping program. Except he's realized now he has to act like he's sorry for something.
If he was clean, he could have done well national elite. Nothing but doping suggests he could have ever been international elite grand tour rider.
What about the guys who finished 2nd through 20th in each TDF- would they only have been national elite without PEDs?
pop_pop!_v2.1.1 wrote:
yawn wrote:I didn't post it. But I did see some of it yesterday. I think he was a fantastic athlete. To me the biggest shame, is the obsession everyone had and still has with drugs. So stupid. He was an awesome competitor. I am glad that people are starting to realise that.
He sounds like the same guy that was on Carmichael's doping program. Except he's realized now he has to act like he's sorry for something.
If he was clean, he could have done well national elite. Nothing but doping suggests he could have ever been international elite grand tour rider.
Who needs EPO and testosterone when you can eat 20 bananas a day?
Changing the subject..
Pretty gross to hear about how in the early days of EPO use, guys would have to get up in the middle of the night to go for a ride cause their blood was too thick.
And how moronic is it that they've stripped him of his TDF titles and didn't give them to anyone else in his place, when the King of the Mountains, and the Green Jersey are still awarded during this era to known dopers. That's another interesting point Lance made.
Lance said he was basically crucified because USADA needed a high profile case to justify it's high budget, because less than 1% of athletes were being caught doping. And it sure does seem like the USA spends a lot of money to make sure guys riding a bike don't inject drugs A and B, but drug C is fine..
And what about how in the NFL cortisone injections are OK but not in cycling?
yawn wrote:
No you fool. I'm not a drug apologist at all. You are drug obsessed. What does it take to show you that no-one needs drugs to produce these power outputs?
Pack it up Lance, it's over. Seriously.
yawn wrote:
Ask Mr. Obvious, he thinks he know stuff. Most poster of a certain age have similar beliefs. It's as though we are not allowed to question these sacred beliefs. That's the real reason why we have a doping problem.
No, I'm asking you. Why do you keep talking about power outputs being the same? What does that have to do with EPO?
Piano_Man87 wrote:
Changing the subject..
Pretty gross to hear about how in the early days of EPO use, guys would have to get up in the middle of the night to go for a ride cause their blood was too thick.
And how moronic is it that they've stripped him of his TDF titles and didn't give them to anyone else in his place, when the King of the Mountains, and the Green Jersey are still awarded during this era to known dopers. That's another interesting point Lance made.
Lance said he was basically crucified because USADA needed a high profile case to justify it's high budget, because less than 1% of athletes were being caught doping. And it sure does seem like the USA spends a lot of money to make sure guys riding a bike don't inject drugs A and B, but drug C is fine..
And what about how in the NFL cortisone injections are OK but not in cycling?
To say nothing of the kids that died experimenting with the stuff. Dutch heart attacks in sub-elite cylists. These days they are called under-23. This is all pre-internet. Good luck finding the death reports.
Pop_pop!_v2.1.1 wrote:
Piano_Man87 wrote:Changing the subject..
Pretty gross to hear about how in the early days of EPO use, guys would have to get up in the middle of the night to go for a ride cause their blood was too thick.
And how moronic is it that they've stripped him of his TDF titles and didn't give them to anyone else in his place, when the King of the Mountains, and the Green Jersey are still awarded during this era to known dopers. That's another interesting point Lance made.
Lance said he was basically crucified because USADA needed a high profile case to justify it's high budget, because less than 1% of athletes were being caught doping. And it sure does seem like the USA spends a lot of money to make sure guys riding a bike don't inject drugs A and B, but drug C is fine..
And what about how in the NFL cortisone injections are OK but not in cycling?
To say nothing of the kids that died experimenting with the stuff. Dutch heart attacks in sub-elite cylists. These days they are called under-23. This is all pre-internet. Good luck finding the death reports.
Lance brought up that Dutch cycling team.
Not sure if that kind of stuff happens any more. Lance made it seem like there was no test for EPO so people were taking a fair bit of the stuff. Hematocrit went up to 60-65. Then the anti-doping people set a hematocrit limit of 50, arguing that that was the highest value you could naturally get to. So then people would try to get it as close to 50 as possible without going over.
I think something that people are missing here is what Lance did to other cyclists and reporters who were whistle-blowers or who did not agree with the doping. Through lies and slander he DESTROYED their careers and their reputations. He kept up those lies for a decade. More than anything else this makes me sick. He gets no excuses for that, I don't care how great an athlete he is/was or the argument about other people using PEDs too. He was a terrible person and got exactly what he deserved.
bad guy wrote:
I think something that people are missing here is what Lance did to other cyclists and reporters who were whistle-blowers or who did not agree with the doping. Through lies and slander he DESTROYED their careers and their reputations. He kept up those lies for a decade. More than anything else this makes me sick. He gets no excuses for that, I don't care how great an athlete he is/was or the argument about other people using PEDs too. He was a terrible person and got exactly what he deserved.
Let's not forget the unsanctioned crimes and long-running conspiracies. Did I mention influence peddling? Oh, yea, the DEA agent who had the case did.
https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/3x8w9q/i_am_a_former_dea_agent_that_opened_the_case/cy2jk35Yes, it was very good. He was very candid. His demeanour changed when he said that he didn't take anything after 2005 however. I wonder why.