One thing's for certain, you can't compare "World Records" broken because the elite / professional scene is vastly different than it was. Not to mention the fact that the World Records are wayyy out there now and almost 100% doped.
Compare titles, comparative domination, absolute times.
oh please wrote:
One thing's for certain, you can't compare "World Records" broken because the elite / professional scene is vastly different than it was. Not to mention the fact that the World Records are wayyy out there now and almost 100% doped.
Compare titles, comparative domination, absolute times.
No, that's not for certain.
The way I see it, he could either be the GOAT or not be the GOAT. So there is therefore a fifty percent chance he's the GOAT.
THE goat WOULD NOT DELIBERATELY PLACE 26th AT STANFORD INVITE.
GOAT team player. pacing 2 of his teammates to make sure they got the qualifier for regionals and nationals.
Weedl wrote:
Yes! wrote:Rono was a GREAT runner but he was a grown man running against much younger competition for t he most part. That seems like a rather unfair advantage. Can you imagine if Galen Rupp was allowed to run for Oregon in his mid to late 20's? How much would Galen dominatr NCAA compeition?
What does being a grown man or not have to do with it? Age doesn't matter. It's about how long you've been training. If you wanted to put a limit based on the number of years trained, that would make more sense.
Are you serious? being 26 has a great deal to do with it.
MikeD wrote:
Weedl wrote:What does being a grown man or not have to do with it? Age doesn't matter. It's about how long you've been training. If you wanted to put a limit based on the number of years trained, that would make more sense.
Are you serious? being 26 has a great deal to do with it.
Well explain it. Why is every 26 yr not faster than everyone younger?
Weedl wrote:
MikeD wrote:Are you serious? being 26 has a great deal to do with it.
Well explain it. Why is every 26 yr not faster than everyone younger?
...
I kind of think he is already when it comes to X country.
In my mind, to be GOAT, he would need to break 13:00 and 27:15 in the next 18 months.
oh please wrote:
One thing's for certain, you can't compare "World Records" broken because the elite / professional scene is vastly different than it was. Not to mention the fact that the World Records are wayyy out there now and almost 100% doped.
Compare titles, comparative domination, absolute times.
One thing is certain: grampa ches and every other duck is 100% doped.
you call ches "grandpa ches" so what do you call rono??? dude was 26 DURING COLLEGE
reader of the forums 2.0 wrote:
oh please wrote:One thing's for certain, you can't compare "World Records" broken because the elite / professional scene is vastly different than it was. Not to mention the fact that the World Records are wayyy out there now and almost 100% doped.
Compare titles, comparative domination, absolute times.
No, that's not for certain.
Actually, it IS for certain. By far the simplest argument you can make is money. In the 1950s - 1970s (i.e. the Ryun era), athletics competitions was amateur-only, and there was absolutely NO motivation for running on the world stage besides pure love of the sport.
This meant that after college, very few runners would continue training at a high level, especially considering they actually needed to establish a career of some sort to support themselves. You didn't have Nike-funded athletes who dedicate themselves 24/7 to becoming better runners and nothing else, or legions of Kenyan road-racers who ran purely to make a living.
Athletics back in that era was similar to how Triathlons are now. Competition was diluted by the fact that not everyone capable of performing at a high level could dedicate themselves to training. A top-10 1500m runner now can easily get a contract to support themselves. A top-10 1500m then had better have had a decent job, because running definitely wasn't going to get him anything.
Ches= GOAT? wrote:
Flotrack just posted an article saying ches isnt the GOAT yet. I've seen some people call him "undoubtedly the best ever" while others say "he isnt even close". Thoughts?
When it finally comes out how old he really is, then he will be the goat.
Seyta wrote:
reader of the forums 2.0 wrote:No, that's not for certain.
Actually, it IS for certain. By far the simplest argument you can make is money. In the 1950s - 1970s (i.e. the Ryun era), athletics competitions was amateur-only, and there was absolutely NO motivation for running on the world stage besides pure love of the sport.
This meant that after college, very few runners would continue training at a high level, especially considering they actually needed to establish a career of some sort to support themselves. You didn't have Nike-funded athletes who dedicate themselves 24/7 to becoming better runners and nothing else, or legions of Kenyan road-racers who ran purely to make a living.
Athletics back in that era was similar to how Triathlons are now. Competition was diluted by the fact that not everyone capable of performing at a high level could dedicate themselves to training. A top-10 1500m runner now can easily get a contract to support themselves. A top-10 1500m then had better have had a decent job, because running definitely wasn't going to get him anything.
No.
And Lindgren was 23 years old 5th year senior when he barely nipped 18 year old Steve Prefontaine as a freshman at Oregon in 1969. Pre went on to win three XC championships after that freshman year. .
Slivery Slope wrote:
And Lindgren was 23 years old 5th year senior when he barely nipped 18 year old Steve Prefontaine as a freshman at Oregon in 1969. Pre went on to win three XC championships after that freshman year. .
Barely nipped? Pre was 3rd dude. He barely nipped him at Pac 8s. He murdered him at NCAAs.
M.C. Confusing wrote:
Slivery Slope wrote:And Lindgren was 23 years old 5th year senior when he barely nipped 18 year old Steve Prefontaine as a freshman at Oregon in 1969. Pre went on to win three XC championships after that freshman year. .
Barely nipped? Pre was 3rd dude. He barely nipped him at Pac 8s. He murdered him at NCAAs.
Still, to say Ches is GOAT over either of those two even in just Xc is wrong. At least at this point. Next year when he wins then maybe xc GOAT. Track he's got to run a whole lot faster. Of course he should run faster as we all know he holds back. Sometimes what makes a runner great is their competition. Besides Jenkins last year who is great that Ches will be remembered for battling? Kithuka in Xc? Lalang in the 5? Sorratos in the mile? Jenkins doesn't count unfortunately because he beaten him every time he hasn't "let him win" which we will never know. And the only other of the three will be lalang and they only had that one race. Maybe I'm over thinking it and he's just really so much better than everyone else so that it seems like their aren't too many studs right now.
French Dawg wrote:
Everybody gives Ches crap for being "old", but have we forgotten that Rono was older as a freshman than Che's is now?
We don't know how old Chez was, and we do know that he has at least 4-5 more years of running experience than Rono. I think that Rono got his first pair of shoes when he was 21. Not running shoes, SHOES.
Other options wrote:
M.C. Confusing wrote:Barely nipped? Pre was 3rd dude. He barely nipped him at Pac 8s. He murdered him at NCAAs.
Still, to say Ches is GOAT over either of those two even in just Xc is wrong. At least at this point. Next year when he wins then maybe xc GOAT. Track he's got to run a whole lot faster. Of course he should run faster as we all know he holds back. Sometimes what makes a runner great is their competition. Besides Jenkins last year who is great that Ches will be remembered for battling? Kithuka in Xc? Lalang in the 5? Sorratos in the mile? Jenkins doesn't count unfortunately because he beaten him every time he hasn't "let him win" which we will never know. And the only other of the three will be lalang and they only had that one race. Maybe I'm over thinking it and he's just really so much better than everyone else so that it seems like their aren't too many studs right now.
He's had some amazing battles against some VERY good runners. You just forget how good they are because he makes it look so easy. Like what about his 10k championship his freshman year when he destroyed Kithuka, Mo Ahmed, and I think Lawi as well with a 24 second last 200? Or absolutely annihilating Pat Tiernan in xc this year after hitting 8k in 22:51? Or dropping a 26 low 200 in the middle of a mile to beat a, then undefeated, Christian Soratos? Or consistently beating 7:44/13:07 man Eric Jenkins?
Of course he's not as accomplished as Rono, and never will be. Rono wasn't just winning NCAA championships, he was soloing world records in college.