Course distance is irrelevant. He just smashed a field that has some talented guys (just compare the track times) by 40 seconds... it's flooring the national field from the gun.
Put him in a better race with better guys and watch him get towed to a top 20-30. I won't say easily, but the talent is there.
His race was ridiculous. He was with the field at the 1k, and led by 30 seconds at the next split, 3950 meters. And it wasn't a field of scrubs either. For D3, it's one of the best top-end talent fields ever assembled.
Lamere's 23:35 looks legit to me from looking at the performance of the field. At Nationals in D3, you will have most of the field being substantially sub 26 quality. The far greater depth in the last decade in hs xc and track has really percolated into D3. I am proud of Williams for winning the women's title in dominating fashion and taking a narrow second in the men's race by just 9 pts (135-144). That latter may not happen next year with a junior-senior dominated team, but congrats to Pete on a great season for men and women.
http://www.ncaa.com/ncaa-cross-country-championship-live-timing
He is not the best runner in DIII history. Please stop that talk. That course runs fast if you cut the tangents. In 2011 Ben Sathre ran 2340 low on that course too. No one was calling him the best DIII runner of all time.
Peter Kosgei in 08 form would have crushed him.
Callum wrote:
His race was ridiculous. He was with the field at the 1k, and led by 30 seconds at the next split, 3950 meters. And it wasn't a field of scrubs either. For D3, it's one of the best top-end talent fields ever assembled.
It looks like Ben Sathre came through 3 miles in 14:20 in 2011 and Ian Lamere in about the same time, 14:26 for 4950 meters.
They would have been running side by side. Oh my!
I'm thinking it's gotta be a different course than 2004, when Josh Moen dominated everyone with a 24:28 - Ian would have beaten Josh by nearly a minute, and Josh was head and shoulders above everyone else in D3 then (ended up running 13:35 for 5k). And 34 guys under 25:00 compared to only 11 in 2004, with guys like Nick Symmonds and Will Leer way back in the pack.
The 2004 course was already fairly fast (I set a big PR there), so my gut says either they changed the route or it ended up getting shorter somehow.
Up The Irons wrote:
Who cares if it's short or not...it's close enough to be used for a national championship...he won by 40 seconds...that is domination
You're 100% right except people are trying to use his times to extrapolate how he'd do in the DI race. So for that discussion, the time/distance is important.
Talking about the DIII race on it's own, then no, who cares. He clearly dominated, regardless of the distance.
2004 Nationals was held at Eau Claire, not Oshkosh.
The weather conditions at the race were also pretty poor. The grass was soft and squishy and it was 30 degrees and windy. If it is short it was still a bad day to run the course.
No p e wrote:
He is not the best runner in DIII history. Please stop that talk. That course runs fast if you cut the tangents. In 2011 Ben Sathre ran 2340 low on that course too. No one was calling him the best DIII runner of all time.
I wouldn't call him the best runner in D3 history either, but I think it's one of the best performances in D3 history, for CC anyway.
There's a slew of guys who've run that fast, Dave Davis comes to mind at the Lake Breeze course back in 99, that was a blitzing year as well. I think 75th or so was 25:00.
His WIAC, Regional, and National wins I think are a dominating stretch of wins. A lot of guys have been that awesome, but I don't know many who've simply crushed everyone that badly.
DIII XC Nationals were at these locations:
1999-Oshkosh
2003-Hanover
2004-Eau Claire
2008-Hanover
2011-Oshkosh
2015-Oshkosh
I think we needed to clear up some location issues as some previous posters were trying to do this as well.
2011 Oshkosh was a firmer, faster course than 2015's version.
LaMere would have beaten Sathre I believe. Sathre was caught at 4 miles by Berube after going out in 4:33-9:15.. first two miles. He obviously got away again in the last mile and won by a decent margin but by no means was he out on his own and thrashing everyone (including 14:10 / 29:39 runners) like LeMere.
Moen beat Yuot so bad in 2003 that Yuot actually celebrated the last 20 meters because he thought he had won the race...not kidding. That was pretty dominant as well.
Ryan Bak was pretty dominant in 2002 over a great runner in Klimenhagen (sp?)
Kosgei, Yuot, Sigl were dominant in their respective years.
This is all post 2000 of course..I would love to hear some stories from races from the 1990s and before.
I only hear myths...sad but true.
giddy wrote:
No p e wrote:He is not the best runner in DIII history. Please stop that talk. That course runs fast if you cut the tangents. In 2011 Ben Sathre ran 2340 low on that course too. No one was calling him the best DIII runner of all time.
His WIAC, Regional, and National wins I think are a dominating stretch of wins. A lot of guys have been that awesome, but I don't know many who've simply crushed everyone that badly.
Leduc won NESCACs, Regionals, and Nationals two years ago. Did not dominate the field as badly ad Lemere did though. He did have Crain and eventual XC Champ Wintheiser and 14:11 guy Horton to out run though.
It was a gutsy performance that was boosted by the fact that nobody wanted ti risk their team placings to chase him. Even if they did chase, I think Lamere would have won, but the margin would have been smaller.
http://pe.pomona.edu/sports/wxc/HistoriansReport/Results/1976-m.pdfif he's healthy wrote:.
This is all post 2000 of course..I would love to hear some stories from races from the 1990s and before.
I only hear myths...sad but true.
Just one year from back in the day. Check out the top 6:
1. Kramer, D Carleton one of the best in D3 history (2nd all time 5000)
2. Hodge, R UMass Lowell (frequents these boards, and even has a Wiki entry: Robert J. "Bob" Hodge (born 1955) is an American distance runner who came third in the 1979 Boston Marathon with a time of 2:12:30.[1] He has also won the Mount Washington Road Race (1976–1980, 1985 and 1987),[2] the Bay to Breakers Road Race in San Francisco (1979),[3] and the Beppu-Ōita Marathon in Japan (1982).[4] His personal best time was his second-place finish at the 1980 Nike OTC Marathon in Eugene, OR at 2:10:59.[5][6])
3. Copper D no slouch, 5000 m champ in the late 70s.
4. Richardson, F MIT (2:14 marathon PR, top 10s at USOT marathon and NYC marathon)
5. Coy, Baldwin Wallace 24:33 8K xc PR
6. Henderson, D Wheaton (already mentioned with top 10 finish at DIs, and numerous top 10s at USAs AAU/TAC in track and XC, fastest D3 5000 m all time)
DFL
D3 can't handle the extra 2k.
Dennis Reynolds -69 wrote:
DFL
D3 can't handle the extra 2k.
You're right...but more like DNF...if a D3 runner tries to go that last 2k they die...scientific fact.
Up The Irons wrote:
Dennis Reynolds -69 wrote:DFL
D3 can't handle the extra 2k.
You're right...but more like DNF...if a D3 runner tries to go that last 2k they die...scientific fact.
Heard that D3 girls can go the distance.
Arnie Shrader from Stephens Point, WI pulled off a similar feat in '86. Trounced the D3 field on the snow covered course in St. Lawrence, NY then a couple of days later took 11th in D1. Ran a 23:39 hands down to qualify for nationals.
I promise you he would not have finished in the top 100 of the D1 race. Consider this, Matthew Maton and Jim Rosa (among other VERY talented runners) BARELY finished under 100th place.
It is easier to run by yourself upfront of the D3 race, getting off the line and easily getting up front. If he ran in the D1 race, he would get buried in the first 400 meters and would be overwhelmed by the mass of bodies surrounding him at all times during the race.
Trust me, if you have run in a D1 XC championships you will understand this, this D3 kid would get utterly smoked. D1 is a completely different beast. You cannot argue with it until you've been there.