time for ncaa international limits? Just throwin it out there

"Wrong" ?

By what moral / legal standard is it "wrong" to have a team with 3,4,5 etc. foreigners on their team?

If the competition has a responsibility to or is organised by a professional national body, such as the English Premier League & the FA, then it makes sense to have different rules.

But whoever suggested there is a limit of two internationals was either born stupid or has been taking classes - Chelsea won the league last year with usually 2-3 English players in their first XI.

I'd love you to define "wrong" without trying to sound dangerously nationalistic or xenophobic.

The NCAA tried an age limit on foreign runners in the 1960s.

They lost in court, as I recall.

Doubt that they will be trying to impose new restrictions.

The way to eliminate foreigners would be for the NCAA to eliminate scholarships or scale them back to tuition only levels.

Of course, they're doing the complete opposite by increasing scholarship levels drastically through cost of attendance.

I suspect this will result in even more foreign athletes coming over to take advantage of even higher levels of pay from the schools.

Op

This issue is much bigger in college hockey and soccer. No offense to Canada, but many top colleges have more than 60% of the roster from the northern country. And, soccer, wow. Look at most big programs. You see most are from the middle east, South America, and all over. It's not just XC

Actually Messi, Oxford and Cambridge Crew teams are loaded with American and foreign athletes; but you still have not answered the fundamental question of competition.

Are you saying that Americans can not compete with the rest of the world?

American kids have not been denied scholarships. The universities did not award them scholarships because they did attain the "required" competitive standard. As an American college-educated track and field/XC athlete you should know that the NCAA Division I competition is as competitive in some events as the Olympics if not more so.

The Olympic "A" Standard for the 100m and 200m is 10.16 sec. and 20.50 respectively. The current NCAA Champion (A Canadian) ran well below this mark, but so did the ENTIRE field (several Americans) in the 100m and 200m finals, either in the final or during the season. The best of the best NCAA Division I athletes are world-class - this is a fact. The emphasis is on world-class, not American class, not 5A or 4A, but world-class. American high school athletes, their families, friends, and everyone regardless of where you are from should understand that the athletes competing in the NCAA are the very best. To go in thinking that this is some high-school dual meet is not realistic and is an insult to the sport.

Coaches jobs are tied to performance to some degree. Are you saying that you would not recruit a Czech javelin thrower, or a Jamaican sprinter, or German Heptathlete?! Of course you would. The flip side of this on the College Coaching Job thread are coaches and assistant coaches being belittled everyday, mercilessly, because they can not win or put a winning team together. A winning team means putting the "best" team you can assemble. Let me put it to you this way. If you or a loved one needs an incredibly difficult operation; are you going to say, "I only want people from Iowa to work on me" or are you going to ask, "who is the best and will they perform the operation"?

Another issue you failed to take into consideration is that these foreign athletes are completing degrees in their second or third languages. They are hundreds if not thousands of miles away from home in a new and sometimes very different culture and they are still producing the goods. They make the entire college experience better. At the very least, if you were a good teammate, you would have a place to say in Africa, Europe, Asia, etc.

Between the great middle and high school coaches throughout the US, personal trainers, sports camps, sports academies, travel teams and Crossfit. Are you saying that with all these amazing resources available to American high school athletes they are are at a disadvantage to Kenyans, Latvians, etc.

Not to belabour the point but train, compete.

The plan is simple;

Sleep

Study

Run

Lift

Stretch

Rest

Repeat

After 4, 6, and 8 years you will be competitive.

1. Expand to Resident Aliens and US Citizens.

2. Allow scholarships for Foreign runners on this basis:

a. All other potential US recruits have been exhausted. That is to say if there are comparable US HS runners (or college transfers) who apply - they should get preference of scholarship over the foreigner.

b. Required documented birth certificate (or other valid proof of age...DNA?) of US and Foreign runners.

I think #2 is fair.

1. Military veterans, minorities, etc.. get preferences over a wide array of things in the US so it's not unprecedented.

2. If the NCAA really wants to police age fairness then we need to be strict on age cheating.

While I think it is sad and pathetic that UTEP has only 6 men on their roster; limiting the number of foreign athletes that can be recruited allowed on a team is/should be illegal. Stop being racist and xenophobic.

Saying that a qualified athletes and student shouldn't get an opportunity to compete in the NCAA system because someone is butt hurt that they are getting ONLY top-20 at NCAAs in a competitive field instead of top-10 in a watered down NCAAs is a terrible attitude. You only get better by racing the best.

Or maybe you're not THAT good and you're still bitter for not getting that $1000 partial scholarship to "X" school to brag to your friends and family that you're a scholarship athlete???

Not a lot of discussion on my original post about limits. I don't think most folks are opposed to teams with international students on their roster but I was most interested about teams dominated and over-stocked with internationals. Why 9 or 11 or 13+ and those are all distance runners? I know some might be mid-distance etc. 6 Kenyans at UTEP at 50K+ per year in COA times four years. That is a big junk of tax payer dollars or booster dollars and really looks like lazy coaching. And no American teammates are getting any training benefits or places to stay years down the road etc. Please can you politically correct morons stop throwing in the racist and xenophobic crap every time a question is asked? Not talking about eliminating the practice and not talking about Kenyans only.

It's ridiculous to accuse someone of racism and xenophobia because they're concerned with a sport being dominated by international athletes whose ages are suspect.

Especially when we know that distance runners are still developing in college, often peaking in their mid- to late-20s.

And we know that several athletes, especially African, have falsified their ages.

Those are the facts.

Some of you are apparently OK with that. That's fine. It's an arguable point. But don't call people racists and xenophobes for stating the facts and not being OK with it.

I personally find it reprehensible and think it makes schools like UTEP, Louisville, Iona, Villanova, OK State, etc. look bad. They're basically saying that they cannot compete on a level playing field and have to manufacture, not develop, their teams.

xcfandog wrote:

UTEP - 6 total guys on their roster - all from Kenya. Iona - about 13 internationals EKU - about 11 internationals - just to name a few. NJCAA implemented sweeping changes a few years back and I am curious how those coaches and fans feel about its impact? Curious what ya'll think about the issue as well?

Depends who is paying the freight. If its the Kenyan govt, like they would do with academic students who cares who comes out for the sport? If its scholarship money paid for by the US, then we really don't need to bank roll the Kenyan Olympic program when we are arguing over funding our own.

Yeah, I remember years back talking to a Kenyan who usually finished 3rd-10th at Peachtree/Bloomsday/etc. a few years earlier.

He was complaining that he was now 40 yrs old but couldn't compete Masters because he cheated on his age so he could run JUCO.

He knew his age but like many Kenyans was gaming the system when it benefitted him. And he clearly had ZERO morality about it.

as someone who isn't racist or xenophobic or anti-immigration , i think international should at least be considered. as others have already said, it takes away funding from americans who would benefit more from it. let's be real, anyone coming to the US for athletics (especially in fringe sports) is probably more likely to return to their country of origin. why not provide opportunity to our own citizens who might provide a more long-term benefit to our country? (it should be noted, i do support the dream act, which might seem to contradict my opinion on this.)

also, i think it is important to athletically develop kids who grew up here. the goal of the american educational system should be to develop well-rounded people that benefit our society.

for me, it's not about "oh, they're beating us! let's limit foreigners!" from a competitive standpoint, having foreign athletes is great. i'd just rather see a kid from el paso get a shot to run on his/her local college team rather than six scholarships be given to people who probably don't care if they ran for UTEP, north dakota state, cal poly pamona, wazzu, or st. john's.

UTEP has little hope of recruiting top U.S. high school talent for various reasons, so recruiting foreign athletes is the only way they can realistically field a competitive team. If the foreign athletes TRULY conform to NCAA age rules, then I see it as a plus in terms of enhancing competition within the NCAA.

Same excuse made at Richmond - just not sure completely overloaded squads are good for the sport. EKU at least has a handful of American kids, UTEP is kind of a joke.

Yes.