Centro, what happened?

145 800 man wrote:

Out of order wrote:

There is way too much logic in this post for it to be included on the LRC messge boards.

Centro didn't have a crowded field running blocker for him like he did '13 when he hit the straight.

Track is such a minor sport in the US (and it really hasn't been all that big in Europe for over 25 years btw) that we don't have many top talent people even trying the sport. We have guys who are good like Centro, Robbie, Leo, but no top notch middle-distance people, never mind Rupp (yeah, all the jealousy based accusations aside) being the only truly talented contender in the distances.

Guys from the past like Scott, Gray, Wohlhuter and more were more talented than the current group. The US should have legit contenders in literally every event.

....-1

Detailed list of the new lineup that would be better than the one we currently have now please.

Jimmy McJimson wrote:

Nothing to get angry about. Well...This was Centro's first off day in a major champs final. Willis has had one 'on' day in 8 attempts. Iguider didn't make the final 2 years ago. Silas Kiplagat ran decently today, but he's had some stinkers in global championships. Centrowitz needs a lot to go right for him to win a medal. I said he should've been 6th today at best. Because none of that happened. That's not to say it hasn't before...it has, that's why he has medals. He'll have to get luck to win a medal from here on out, but crazier stuff has happened. Certainly a medal isn't the expectation with the 1500 as loaded as it is.

Centro was the one tooting his own horn saying he had "already medaled" and now was "going for gold". So to him a medal was the expectation. He hasn't run in a final this stacked. The 1500m field isn't gonna get any easier and his chances at getting a medal aren't going to get any better. I don't understand why people on this board were calling him a "favorite" to get a medal. He, like Jaeger, Rupp and True, can't react to the change of pace in the last 400m. I can't see him becoming a 3:28 1500m runner and it's not really important if his tactics are great when he's racing a bunch of dudes who are considerably faster than he is not just by their PBs but with their kicks as well.

JAKIR wrote:

He was overmatched by the top 5. Kiprop 3:26, Kiplagat 3:27, Iguider 3:28, Makhloufi 3:28 and Willis and Manangoi 3:29. You tell me how often he's going to be able to beat at least three of those guys (who are all faster than him) to get a medal?

Good post, but in your enthusiasm to knock Centro, you ignore your own logic in that Manangoi beat FOUR guys faster than him on paper. You can't just go by PRs, especially in tactical races. The great Kiprop is much faster than Manangoi on paper but finished only .23 ahead of him in the race.

JAKIR, take a deep breath man. You're so actively hating on the guy because he answered a reporter's questions Honestly? Go back and watch the interview, it was a confident answer to an normal question.

Q: Lebron how will you do tomorrow?

A: We want to win. We beat these guys in game 2 and we know we can beat them if we play our best.

And let's not act like it's impossible to medal in the 1500 if you're capable of getting into the final. Let me give you three examples of guys who beat faster, better runners to get a medal.

Centro 2011

Leo 2012

Centro 2013

Does it take luck and the stars aligning for it to happen? Sure. But it does and can happen. The 1500 typically has at least one surprise medalist because tactics, pace and position play a bigger part in its outcome than it does in any other race.

And you're on this crusade of "the field is too good now". Dude, these are mostly the same guys he's been racing since 2011. Have they improved? Sure. Has he too? You betcha. If anything, the gap has shrunk.

This is a very intelligent post.

I am also surprised that everyone thinks the difference between 3:28 and 3:30 is so incredibly large. Two seconds in a 1500 is not a deal breaker. If two high school kids with 4:08 and 4:10 PRs were racing, would you bet your house and cars on the 4:08 guy without hesitation? I doubt it.

Not to mention that winning a world 1500 final is not about running one good 1500...it's about who can handle TWO rounds before the final, position themselves properly in the final, and kick it home the last lap.

Just because someone can post a 3:28 behind a rabbit in Monaco doesn't mean they are on a different level than a 3:30 performer.

To add to this, remember that Centro got a bronze at worlds while he was still a COLLEGIAN. Add to that his 4th place Oly finish and silver medal, and he had good reason to be positive about his chances today.

If his interview went more like "yeah I doubt I will medal, the other guys at Monaco were just so much better than me", you'd be ripping him apart for his negative attitude.

There is seriously no way to make some of the posters on this board happy. We have an American guy who is confident and performs well on the world stage, but it is just not enough.

Not only does he have to win gold every time and set the WR to make you happy, but his personality has to fit your mold too. Is he cocky and arrogant? Absolutely...but you don't have to live with him. Hell, you don't even know him. So stop following his twitter if it really rubs you the wrong way.

People need to be appreciative of the mid distance and distance success the US has enjoyed lately instead of being so negative and spiteful toward all of the US athletes.

people are being biased wrote:

To add to this, remember that Centro got a bronze at worlds while he was still a COLLEGIAN.

What does that mean?

A "COLLEGIAN"!!! meeeeeeeee

It's only in the US that people make that distinction. In the rest on the world you stop being a Junior and you are not yet a Veteran and so you compete in the same age-group.

How about the guy from Eritrea who won the Marathon? No, he is not a "COLLEGIAN". You know why? Because he doesn't go to college. But he still won it.

And if you are going to say he is not the age he says he is, then tell me, were you there when he was born?

kjgkuyg wrote:

How about the guy from Eritrea who won the Marathon?

That guy is at least 47 years old.

aslkdjf;ldsakjf;ldsjfs;ldjfasd wrote:

I think Centro already won in his mind so forgot to finish the race

That is so funny!

You Know Me wrote:

kjgkuyg wrote:

How about the guy from Eritrea who won the Marathon?

That guy is at least 47 years old.

:)

What you say is partly true - it would not have been out of the question for him to medal. However, I did think it unwise for so many to pick him to medal. Certainly Kiprop, Makhloufi and Iguider should have been favored over him. I also had Kiplagat ahead of him, even though he doesn't seem to have that explosive finish that the others do. At these guys' level, 2 seconds shows fairly distinct superiority from one athlete to another.

I certainly would favor the 4:08 guy over the 4:10 guy, even considering the fact that high school athletes are more unpredictable in performance. The 4:10 guy could win, but he shouldn't be favored. Also, there were a bunch of "4:08" and "4:09" guys ahead of the "4:10" guy here.

I think his past years' successes were due to slightly weaker fields, lots of luck, and, yes, good positioning. Tactics do count, but I think are a bit overrated.

He could get better for next year, though.

JAKIR wrote:

Centro was the one tooting his own horn saying he had "already medaled" and now was "going for gold". So to him a medal was the expectation...

This makes sense in that he meant he was going to be less conservative and take the risk needed to try to win it all. In going for gold instead of bronze, he had a greater risk of running out of gas and not medaling. That's what happened, though today if he did stay out of traffic and run more evenly paced, he probably wouldn't have improved his place more than 6th.

So yeah, he did have the lead for part of the last lap, but he just didn't have it today. Disappointing, but nothing else he could have done. He probably realizes he needs to intensify his training and basically needs to be in 3:27/8/American record shape to medal.

I think people are underestimating the value of consistency in championship races.

Once a person has proven they can medal at a global championship, it's probably the best indicator that they will be able to medal again.

At the very least, it's a much more accurate indicator than PR's.

On the national level we see this with Nick Symmonds and Leo Manzano. They rarely look great on paper coming to National Championships but they've proven again and again that they can make teams. You'd be stupid to bet against them despite what happens in the early season.

Centro has come to close to showing the same consistency with his past three championship appearances.

Secondly, this talk of weaker fields doesn't really hold water. Yes, the times have gotten faster, but as has already been stated, the runners in the final haven't changed much since 2011.

Kiprop, Willis, Kiplagat, Maklhoufi, Iguider have all been around and all have losses to Centro in finals.

Even a runner like Manangoi, his PR is comparable Nixon Chepseba. Everyone would do well to actually look up the participants in previous championships before talking about the difference in quality. Time isn't everything.

He was gesturig any chock holds after the race.

Lololol the centro lovers are so lame. You guys have no life. Get off his nuts. He stopped doping and got torched. Time for this fugly chump to hang them up!!!!

It is stunning to watch people on these boards perform all sorts of logical acrobatics to discredit Centro.

The guy did not walk up to Rojo and say, "I'm going to get gold." Rojo asked a leading question that went along the lines of this: "with two medals already, has you mentality in these championships changed in such a way that you are going for gold."

Centro answered yes. And if he had said "no," the outrage on this board would have been a sight to see.

More important, though, is that it's just wrong to think that at the elite, championship level, a better PR (by 2-3 seconds) instantly and necessarily equates to a better championship finish. Because when you run 3:28, you are running in an entirely different manner than when you are in a championship; you are striving to HOLD a fast pace rather than deliver a fast finish that will maximize your position against everyone else's.

As a result, the "best" runners tend to be the most physically fit--a quality that PRs approximately measure. But PRs rarely reflect how an athlete reacts to the drastic changes of pace that characterize championship racing.

Centrowitz is a runner whose abilities have suited him to championship racing over DL racing. This is a unique set of skills that should be celebrated, rather than derided as a weakness or as secondary to DL racing. And the fact that Centrowitz has optimized this skill set to get 3rd, 4th, and 2nd in previous championships is a tremendous and indeed entirely logical reason to think he has a reasonable shot against Kiprop, Manangoi, and company.

Great post.

Stick with eharmony wrote:

Lololol the centro lovers are so lame. You guys have no life. Get off his nuts. He stopped doping and got torched. Time for this fugly chump to hang them up!!!!

No what is even funnier? That someone that looks like YOU would call ANYone "fugly" (!!) or make funny of anyone for ANYthing.

(yes, people that is Mr "stick". What was he saying about "ugly" "lame" and "no life" ??)

Centro is capable of reacting off a change of pace in the last 400m. Watch his :51 finish (below) in his 2011 Bronze race, while finishing fastest. Off form a little in the 2015 race- but doesn't mean he can't.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=78867EaVpKk