Scott Jurek Appalachian Trail Record Attempt

john muir wrote:

The Appalachian Trail? What, you mean that basically paved bike path through the "mountains" of the east coast? The one that has four-star overnight lodging along the way?

A real challenge would be the PCT through deserts, glaciers, up and over volcanoes and literally from border to border. Or even the Continential Divide Trail.

This will be a good warm up for Jurek when he hopefully goes for a hike worth having.

Even with 500 fewer miles, the AT has way more up & down than the PCT -- but both have strong hiker cultures and economies in towns along the way (especially in the summer hiking months). You typically don't have to carry more than four or five days of food on either trail.

Appalachian Trail

Distance: 2,175 miles

Total Elevation Gain/Loss: ~515,000 feet

Pacific Crest Trail

Distance: 2,650 miles

Total Elevation Gain/Loss: ~315,000 feet

Continental Divide Trail

Distance: 3,100 miles

Total Elevation Gain/Loss: ~400,000 feet

George31321 wrote:

I care and my name is George not Scott.

Can't you appreciate different kinds of athletic achievements?

To me both of these are worthwhile achievements:

1. Running twice around a 400m oval track as fast as you can.

2. Running 50+ miles a day for 40-45 days.

Why do you have to chose one or the other?

I wouldn't dispute that they are both worthwhile achievements. I've done a fair amount of ultra running, and once hiked about 600 miles of the Appalachian Trail, so I at least have a "feel" for what this is all about.

I just don't like the self-promotional aspect of it. Some people view Jurek as an inspirational hero, but to me he seems to have a big ego that needs constant attention.

If Karl Meltzer says the AT is hard, I'm going to believe him.

I'm not sure if it's ego with Jurek. This is the guy who once showed up at Badwater unannounced and crewed/paced a runner. This is a few years after his second win at the race.

If anything, he is trying to capitalize on what "fame" he has left. I do have to wonder if there is a little bit of jealousy there with Karnazes. Everyone knows Jurek was the better runner but then Karnazes came along, got the book deal and became much more famous and well known.

Beiber can keep the fame. I just want to help people. Unfortunately I can't be anonymous. I'm encouraging people to be open publicly. Fame is going to be the worst part of my job, if it happens.

I'm mostly interested in the athletic achievement of this, but how to deal with the publicity is an interesting topic.

If you're not a well-known person you can just do it and no one cares.

If you're famous you kind of have two choices:

Either 1.) try to hide from the attention or 2.) meet it head on.

Last summer Karl Meltzer tried the first approach - doing it "stealth" mode - He basically said he didn't want it to turn into a circus (my phrase) on the trail and didn't want crowds coming out to run with him.

But after a few weeks people started posting updates where they saw him go by and some people found him and hiked with him for a while.

All the updates I read said he and his crew were friendly to everyone and took photos, etc.

It looks like Scott Jurek is taking the second approach.

Maybe he figures if he provides daily updates, photos, live tracking, etc. people will not be so eager to find out where he is and basically leave him alone.

It's really a no win situation for these guys - you'll have some people offended if you don't stop and chat for 5 minutes and take selfies and you'll always have some people questioning your motives, etc.

I know if I'm out running (and especially if I'm trying to run at a fast pace) the last thing I want to do is stop and talk to someone.

I live in New Hampshire and, assuming he makes it this far, I admit that I'll be tempted to go out and cheer him on as he runs by

John Muir, you are an idiot. The AT is not a wilderness experience, and anyone who claims it is has never spent much time on it. I should know seeing as I have a north bound thru hike under my belt from summer 2009. It is a perfect set up to cover a huge amount of land in a short amount of time, with easy trail head access and convenient resupply. Anyone who wants a wilderness experience would NEVER attempted a supported hike. That takes all of the "trail magic" and trip defining experiences away. I think you may be playing the critic for elements of the trip they never wanted in the first place. The PCT however, you are correct in assuming would be much more difficult. I believe the speed record for a supported thru hike on the pct is 53 days and change. Compared to the supported record for the AT at 46 days and change, its obvious one is longer and more strenuous. The PCT is essentially the AT of western seaboard. Having spent 500+ miles in northern cali/oregon on this trail i will tell you that it has some aspects of a wilderness experience but do to the population on the west coast, can seem crowded in certain areas. Still amazing, and completely runnable. Now lets adress what makes you an idiot. The CDT is only 80% completed. There is a "corridor" that you must stay within for the entirety of the trip but the trail does not run uninterrupted from mexico to canada. My friends who have completed this trail consider it twice as hard as either of the other two put together. This trail does not even have a true "speed record" as there is not designated route one must stick to for 20% of the length of the journey. The idea that someone is "warming up" for a unsupported thru hike by running a supported speed attempt is just stupid. Leave the outdoors to the actual outdoorsmen.

0/10.

john muir wrote:

The Appalachian Trail? What, you mean that basically paved bike path through the "mountains" of the east coast? The one that has four-star overnight lodging along the way?

A real challenge would be the PCT through deserts, glaciers, up and over volcanoes and literally from border to border. Or even the Continential Divide Trail.

This will be a good warm up for Jurek when he hopefully goes for a hike worth having.

John Muir - go crawl back into your Redwood tree and gnaw on a couple of pine cones. You've obviously never stepped foot on the AT...portions of Pennsylvania alone are ankle breaker sections of bunion-biting rock fields. Not the picturesque glory of the PCT or Continental Divide, but a real bitch of a hike complicated by the annoying mosquitoes, heat and extreme humidity reserved for the east coast.

Stop being a left-coast snob.

Granted, the PCT has the High Sierras, and if you're doing the trail following a heavy winter, you have to deal with snow pack and other technical issues. However, under normal conditions over the bulk of the trails, a trail runner can can go faster/farther per day on the PCT than the AT. The records bear that out -- the record pace per day on the PCT is around 49.77. miles while the AT record pace is 46.77 per day. However, when you're pushing to your limits, it isn't really appropriate to say one trail is harder/easier than the other. Both trails can grind you up.

I became a 2000 miler in 2007. That's what that call somebody who finished the entire trail (it tends to change a little year to year). Not somebody who "Mike Rossi-ied" the trail and skips a lot like Bill Bryson did in "A Walk In The Woods."

It's tough enough for your average person. A well trained ultra guy probably won't have much trouble with it, but doing it quickly would be hard for most. With a full pack starting out I was at like 11 miles per day for the first couple of weeks. Then over the next 3 weeks I got up to the mid/upper teens per day. Then in Virginia it was over 20 mpd until New Hampshire. Then it was upper teens and occasional twenties through the end. Not really because it's that much harder (by then I was in fantastic shape), but logistics got harder. Not as many resupply points that were convenient and also the weather was more of a risk because you were above treeline some, and one day in bad weather was enough for me up there to keep me from risking getting stuck between shelters.

I did back to back days of 32 & 26, through PA. The rocky terrain is limited to like the last 60 miles of PA and first 20 miles of NJ, that crap is over hyped! I also had pizza delivered to a shelter there, do it was awesome!

I saw more nature on long days, the more hours you walk, the bigger variety you see. Those who say you have to go slow just like taking long naps and big lunches.

Good luck to him. Hopefully he'll get good weather.

PCT also has some longer stretches between easy resupplies. AT feels like it crosses a road every five miles (not true everywhere, but definitely true in places).

Scott's completed one week: 343 miles

(as of last night)

= 49 miles per day average

there is a cool spreadsheet (maintained by "Odd Man Out") on drop box with projections (linear and scaled against JPD) here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vh92xpsn7331f4h/Jurek.xlsx?dl=0

About 5 more weeks to go at this pace.

If he can throw in a couple of big mile days (say 60-80 miles) each week to get a little ahead of record pace, it will help by the time he gets to New Hampshire...

True, but the AT is at lower elevation than the PCT and CDT. The lowpoint of the CDT is 3900'. The highpoint of the AT is 6600'. Much of the PCT and CDT is above 10,000'. There's a big difference between going uphill at 5000' and doing the same at 10,000'.

Scott's completed two weeks: 662.1 miles

(as of this past Tuesday night - June 9)

= 47.3 miles per day average

The spreadsheet should be updated soon here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vh92xpsn7331f4h/Jurek.xlsx?dl=0

About 4 more weeks to go at this pace.

I'd like to see him throw in a few big mile days (say 60-80 miles) over the next couple of weeks to have a buffer for New Hampshire and Maine...

He's got Karl Meltzer coming out to help him. Not sure if it's to crew or run with, but that is a huge, huge asset to have.

George31321 wrote:

I'd like to see him throw in a few big mile days (say 60-80 miles) over the next couple of weeks to have a buffer for New Hampshire and Maine...

I agree. On his facebook page he says he's halfway through VA. So as long as he doesn't get injured, his pace should go up markedly through the approaching middle third of the AT, at least until he gets to VT. The AT kind of follow longer north-south ridges in VA and PA, so not as much elevation change as through the southern third of the trail. As you indicate, if Jurek's going to crack the record, crushing this this middle part is critical. However, I would say that once he hits the Green Mountains, he has to deal with more radical elevation changes again, and his daily pace will almost certainly slow. In any case, I think his maintaining that 47 mpd pace through the south means that he's presently on pace for the record.

Isn't the VA/MD/PA section of the AT known for having more rocks than the other sections and that, while the elevation is down somewhat, this could lead to slower runs/times?

Lots of rocks and tree roots on parts of the AT. Also, while trails out west were made with horses in mind and tend to have more gradual climbs, trails back east will go straight up and straight down in places.

Glaciers in the last ice age dumped s**t loads of rocks, especially in southern PA, and of course scraped off top soil, so more exposed rocks. On the plus side, the glaciers also scoured out those long, low PA ridges. However, in my opinion at least, the trail isn't really that bad through that section. It kind of gets mythologized, but an expert trail runner like Jurek shouldn't have significant problems. Of course, he could always step wrong, twist an ankle and the ship sinks -- that comes with the territory. But unless he's nursing some sort of injury, his pace should definitely pick up through this section, and I agree with the earlier poster that he needs to push if he wants to break Pharr Davis' record.