What is the value of training at marathon pace if you're not a marathoner?

RancidCupNoodle wrote:

I'm curious what your HM pace is.

Vo2 max cannot be improved obviously. no need for if for that. Vo2 output is a different thing. but still what's your HM time?

List of race paces which have held true for me across the 5K to HM spectrum in the last year of racing (these are not PR paces):

5K: 5:38

10K: 5:55

HM: 6:15

aerobicc wrote:

Is this an argument for linear (periodized) training?

When you say linear periodized training, you're referring to old school Lydiard stuff, where faster paces are added sequentially? I think it's almost the an argument against that. If you're hitting a variety of paces in training, you're not going to have a problem. It's when you focus almost exclusively on one type of training (in this case LT) that you have problems. Certainly the emphasis shifts, but non-linear periodization is pretty much the universal approach now (at least outside of Japan). It takes a relatively small stimulus to maintain an adaptation, but a much stimulus to create a new one. Hitting all of your paces year 'round, in at least a small volume, allows you to consolidate your gains and develop more from season to season, year to year. Even among African runners, the famous "rest season" is starting to fall out of favor.

Thanks for your contribution to this thread, many valuable insights. I will work on rotating "MP stuff" into a multi-pace training approach you suggest. For me, that pace is challenging enough in training ( solo without a group to run with) to warrant its own "workout slot" which is why I was hesitant to include it into the rotation if its benefits are minimal. But I see now that the effort would not be wasted and in fact too much of the anaerobic is worse.

aerobicc wrote:

I understand the benefits of running near lactate threshold and around 3K pace for V02 max improvement.

But what is the benefit of running at marathon pace? Let me use my example:

I'm in 17:30 5K shape...I train for distances between 1500m and the half-marathon. My "marathon pace" at this level of fitness is around 6:30/mile

So for my "aerobic training" runs...what's the benefit of running say 5 miles at 6:30 pace versus 5 miles at 7:30 pace which is my "easy pace"

What specific adaptations, physiologically speaking, are occuring at marathon pace that are not occuring at easy pace?

For marathoners, my question is mute because obviously the principle of specificity applies.

Mute =/= Moot. Ask your homeroom teacher if you don't understand.

Training theory:

Run most miles slower than date pace, and a few faster than goal pace. Run some integrating efforts, such as progressions, races, etc. Avoid false precision re pace. Feel it.

I was under the impression that marathon pace is basically at aerobic threshold pace (not to be mistaken with anaerobic threshold or lactate threshold pace). Aerobic threshold is the point on the continuum where you start using more carbohydrates than fats, therefore training at marathon pace would provide adaptations to one's ability to use carbohydrates as an energy source.

IMO - the only benefit for you would be it was a good workout. In terms of it being a good workout to get you ready for the 5K, 10K or 21K, it would not be in my plan. From my experience at that level, a 17:30 5K puts you in the 6:30 - 6:40 MP range or 2:51:00 - 2:55:00 - assuming adequately trained