I just found out my 8th grade 1600 record was broken

Coach Pink wrote:

4:40 for an 8th grader? That is Alan Webb territory man.

I agree it was fast - especially for a newbie who had never run competitively. We did have organized practices though and a pretty strong high school program. There was another kid on the team who broke 5:00.

As far as Alan Webb territory - that's about as close as I ever got to him. I peaked early, real early. My chronology for those who care:

8th grade: 4:40

9th grade: 4:30

10th grade: 4:19 (split 4:18 in a relay but don't count it)

11th grade: 4:18

12th grade: 4:16

College: 3:48 1500 (I spilt a 4:05 in a DMR once, but rarely ran 1600 or mile)

I looked back on some results but the junior high school records back in Bama at the school Matthews went to (Mountain Brook) are:

800-1:54.xx jake Stephens

1600-4:21.xx Matthews

3200-9:24.xx Matthews

Those were times put up in 9th grade but Stephens was around 1:57 in 8th grade and Matthews 4:26/9:43 in 8th grade. Stephens dad is Randy Stephens who was a multitime All American and 3:54 miler at Arkansas under McDonnell.

I looked back on some results but the junior high school records back in Bama at the school Matthews went to (Mountain Brook) are:

800-1:54.xx jake Stephens

1600-4:21.xx Matthews

3200-9:24.xx Matthews

Those were times put up in 9th grade but Stephens was around 1:57 in 8th grade and Matthews 4:26/9:43 in 8th grade. Stephens dad is Randy Stephens who was a multitime All American and 3:54 miler at Arkansas under McDonnell.

Break a leg. (not your own)

A fairly well known NJ high schooler was 4:40ish in the 1600m in 8th grade. I think he was also 4:04 or 4:05 split and 8:45ish in the 3200 (two mile?) by our senior year, so the progression fits.

Wow, these guys are all fantastic. I mean, Jim Ryun couldn't break 5:30 when he first started miling, and that was in 10th grade (granted, during xc season)!

lease wrote:

Wow, these guys are all fantastic. I mean, Jim Ryun couldn't break 5:30 when he first started miling, and that was in 10th grade (granted, during xc season)!

He also became XC state champ that year.

Those times are fast for middle school! For boys in middle school though a lot of times it's all about hitting puberty early. A 13 or 14 year old boy that's shaving is bound to be faster than a little kid. It usually is more obvious in the sprints, jumps and throws though.

I'm sorry, but 'no'. This thread is troll-bait. OP: 9/10. You put some real thought into this.

http://age-records.125mb.com/

shows that both the OP and this supposed 7th grader are near world-record holders for their age group, and, somehow, they just happened to go to the same middle school!

I'll welcome evidence to the contrary, but, nope, sorry, no way.

Link wrote:

I'm sorry, but 'no'. This thread is troll-bait. OP: 9/10. You put some real thought into this.

http://age-records.125mb.com/

shows that both the OP and this supposed 7th grader are near world-record holders for their age group, and, somehow, they just happened to go to the same middle school!

I'll welcome evidence to the contrary, but, nope, sorry, no way.

First of all in the most likely case that the 7th grader was 13, he is 10 seconds off the "world record." I wouldn't call him a near-world record holder. Second, it's more like a US/GBR record. Did you happen to see that the 1500 times are way faster? Third, this 7th grader could be 14, and the OP likely was when he set the record. The 1500 14yo record is 3:54.1, way faster than a 4:39 1600.

There are a couple of issues in assessing times in different grades. When I was a kid, many of my fellow students were 17 years old by graduation, some were as young as 17 1/2. Today, relatively few are 17 at graduation and many are approaching 20. Because of this, school grade records are therefore inherently flawed. The grade records are better but do not necessarily represent better runners.When I see a 9TH grader running some incredible time, its usually because they are an old 9TH grader and should probably be in 10TH or possibly even 11TH grade. Early maturation is also a very big determinant in many cases. Some of this is strictly because of the age of the kid, but there are obviously many, many cases of vast differences in physical development of kids of equal age, particularly among boys.When my son was in 8TH grade, he was a skinny little boy who ran a 5:20 1600 in his district meet, the winner was several inches taller, had real muscle on him and ran 4:45. Ever since then my son has gradually been gaining on him. My son is now 5 inches taller and equally muscular. His PRs have gradually improved and he now has a PR faster than the 8TH grade champ(4:20.8 vs 4:24) as seniors.Clearly the 8TH grade differences had nothing to do with real athletic ability and almost exclusively the consequence of variable maturation. Age also played a role. The 8TH grade champ is 11 months older as well.

Middle school coach wrote:

Those times are fast for middle school! For boys in middle school though a lot of times it's all about hitting puberty early. A 13 or 14 year old boy that's shaving is bound to be faster than a little kid. It usually is more obvious in the sprints, jumps and throws though.

Anonymous 87 wrote:

As far as Alan Webb territory - that's about as close as I ever got to him. I peaked early, real early. My chronology for those who care:

8th grade: 4:40

9th grade: 4:30

10th grade: 4:19 (split 4:18 in a relay but don't count it)

11th grade: 4:18

12th grade: 4:16

College: 3:48 1500 (I spilt a 4:05 in a DMR once, but rarely ran 1600 or mile)

You were faster than Alan Webb in 8th grade. He ran 4:52.

MICK: What were your personal best times each year?

ALAN: 400m: grade (9)-54, (10)-49.8,(11)-48.4,(12)-47.4

800m: grade (9)-1:56,(10)-1:51.9,(11)-1:50,(12)-1:47.74

Mile: grade(4)-7:03,(5)-6:10,(6)-5:44,(7)-5:20,(8)-4:52,(9)-4:24 (10)-4:06.94,(11)-4:03.33,(12)-3:53.43

2-mile: grade (9)-9:34,(10)-9:10,(11)-8:59.9,(12)-8:45

Matthews double in 8th grade: 4:26/9:58

http://al.milesplit.com/meets/11245/results/24146

docvfm wrote:

There are a couple of issues in assessing times in different grades. When I was a kid, many of my fellow students were 17 years old by graduation, some were as young as 17 1/2. Today, relatively few are 17 at graduation and many are approaching 20.

Um, "many" ? Ever hear of hyperbole?

There are some 19 y.o.'s, but that it an exception. I live in the south. They start school real early in the summer. The general cut-off for sending your kid to school (based on birthday) is Aug 1. My son is right on the cut off, he could have been the youngest in his grade or the oldest. He is the oldest (by a bit). He will 18 his entire sr year. and 3 mo's shy of 19 when he graduates. he certainly will not be " approaching 20", and he will be the oldest, or certainly one of the oldest in his grade.

Don't exaggerate.

(now let me guess, here is where you reply and double down on your statement? )

Link wrote:

I'm sorry, but 'no'. This thread is troll-bait. OP: 9/10. You put some real thought into this.

http://age-records.125mb.com/

shows that both the OP and this supposed 7th grader are near world-record holders for their age group, and, somehow, they just happened to go to the same middle school!

I'll welcome evidence to the contrary, but, nope, sorry, no way.

How can you take that list seriously? Ismael Kirui ran 13:01 when he was 18. German Fernandez is listed as the record holder at 13:25

Even if it is just a USA/GBR list, the guy is poised at national superstar status, yet somehow just another Letsrunner? I don't buy it.

where'd u live? wrote:

jjjjj wrote:

I find it hard to believe that you ran a 1600 in eighth grade in 1987, when most of the tracks, especially on the middle school level, were 440y. 4:39-40 is cruising for a 7th or even 8th grader. I could manage only a lackluster 5:32 those years on my 5-10 mpw (I assume).

Not hard to believe. Our track, and most nearby schools (except one or two)where we competed, were also 400m by 1987. Our high school was a small school (less than 500 students) in Indiana.

Junior high (6-8th grade) competed on the high school track, since it was the only track. Same at most schools in our conference.

Freakin' rich people and their affluent neighborhoods, no matter how small. My school was using a cinder 440 track until 2001, and we were ahead other area schools in transitioning to 400m modern tracks. 1987. Ha!

cbenson4 wrote:

lease wrote:

Wow, these guys are all fantastic. I mean, Jim Ryun couldn't break 5:30 when he first started miling, and that was in 10th grade (granted, during xc season)!

He also became XC state champ that year.

He won it his junior & senior year, but not as a sophomore, which was his first season of running (fall of 1962). He finished 6th at the state meet.

He did go from running 5:38 in a mile time trial at the beginning of the year to running 4:07.8 against college kids by the end of the year.

Quite a progression.

Link wrote:

I'm sorry, but 'no'. This thread is troll-bait. shows that both the OP and this supposed 7th grader are near world-record holders for their age group, and, somehow, they just happened to go to the same middle school!

Understand the skepticism as the times are/were fast. As I mentioned before though, this was a county-wide middle school record, not a school record. I still have the school record as far as I know. Also - I said "I think" the kid who broke it was a 7th grader because the person who told me about the record said "he thought" the same.

And since I'm posting again, I have also been informed that this season, a freshman took down my frosh 3200 school record (9:47) from 88. I had no idea I even had the record as I rarely ran the 3200. However, I did some checking, and am proud to announce that I still hold the frosh 800 (2:01) and soph 1600 (4:19) records FWIW. I don't see that 4:19 being broken anytime soon. I had the school 1600 record @ 4:16 for a couple seasons before some young gun went 4:12. I know, I know - no need to complain.

Finally, to those who have discussed physical maturation being a major factor during the middle school years, I totally agree. I was an "old" 8th grader at 14 and 18 and several months when I graduated HS, which I think was a big advantage.