Bob Larsen on Ryan Hall: "I think he could have run close to a 2:10 (marathon) in high school."

Not sure what Malmo's pr was but he ran at least 2:13

http://www.bunnhill.com/bobhodge/rtp3.htm

458permile wrote:

malmo wrote:

If you wired 100 Ryan Halls's brains together it wouldn't even come close to one Paul Gompers' brain, even with the flu and a hangover.

To stick with the thread topic and answer the OP, NO, unequivocally NO, there was nothing about Hall's HS career that indicated the ability to run 2:10.

I'm guessing this malmo guy never ran a 2:10 marathon.

No I haven't.

How does that relate to this thread or my post?

malmo wrote:

To stick with the thread topic and answer the OP, NO, unequivocally NO, there was nothing about Hall's HS career that indicated the ability to run 2:10.

While this might be true (though of course Bob Larsen says otherwise), it is also true that:

"NO, unequivocally NO, there was (almost) nothing about Hall's *COLLEGE* career that indicated the ability to become the best 1/2 marathon and marathon runner in US history within the next 2 years, and the ability to run 2:05* "

* Not counting Boston. He would have run under 2:06 at London with even a slightly more even first half. What was his first 1/2? 1:01:4X )

When Hall graduated college who predicted a solo 59:4x in his 1/2 marathon debut, a 2:08 marathon debut, and a near-2:05 in his 2nd marathon try? No one.

Far Out West wrote:

Would like to see the Colorado list. I am sure Oregon has a pretty good one too. Come to think of it I think Salazar had a season of Track elibibility left when he won NYC in 2:09 wearing an Oregon singlet. The current crop of US marathoners seem to be setting their sights too low.

I doubt either team had many runners running marathons while in school. The only ones I can think of from either school would be Kirk Pfeffer and Brad Hudson.

Alberto's FIFTH year of track was 1981. Wasn't eligible for cross country in 1980 (when he ran NYC) and wasn't going to grad school. So he wasn't a student when he ran the marathon.

Tyrannosaurus Rexing wrote:

malmo wrote:

To stick with the thread topic and answer the OP, NO, unequivocally NO, there was nothing about Hall's HS career that indicated the ability to run 2:10.

While this might be true (though of course Bob Larsen says otherwise), it is also true that:

"NO, unequivocally NO, there was (almost) nothing about Hall's *COLLEGE* career that indicated the ability to become the best 1/2 marathon and marathon runner in US history within the next 2 years, and the ability to run 2:05* " .

You're speaking for your lack of experience, not mine.

When he was a high school junior I thought he had the potential to be one of the best American runners ever. His senior year at Stanford he certainly showed that he had the potential to become the best 1/2 marathoner in history, with his 13:22 NCAA win (one of the best ever in meet history) and 13:16 at USATF.

malmo wrote:

You're speaking for your lack of experience, not mine.

When he was a high school junior I thought he had the potential to be one of the best American TRACK runners ever. His senior year at Stanford he certainly showed that he had the potential to become the best 1/2 marathoner in history, with his 13:22 NCAA win (one of the best ever in meet history) and 13:16 at USATF.

Corrected omission.

malmo wrote:

Far Out West wrote:

Would like to see the Colorado list. I am sure Oregon has a pretty good one too. Come to think of it I think Salazar had a season of Track elibibility left when he won NYC in 2:09 wearing an Oregon singlet. The current crop of US marathoners seem to be setting their sights too low.

I doubt either team had many runners running marathons while in school. The only ones I can think of from either school would be Kirk Pfeffer and Brad Hudson.

Alberto's FIFTH year of track was 1981. Wasn't eligible for cross country in 1980 (when he ran NYC) and wasn't going to grad school. So he wasn't a student when he ran the marathon.

And Kirk was another one of Larsen's former Grossmont/Toads athletes.

Would anyone take the marathon seriously if NCAA added it to outdoor Nationals like NAIA has? Or would the talent just want to do the 10k... It may help development a deeper American Field for the distance if people were willing to run it.

Did Ed Mendoza run one in college?

I doubt adding it to NCAA's would help. Larsen's guys just ran them because they were competitive distance runners and at that time competitive distance runners ran everything: track, cross, roads, marathons. They liked to compete, test themselves at all distances. No special training, it was all pretty much the same. Want to run a marathon? Make the long run a little longer, that's it, no problem.

I think Brad Hudson ran a 2:17 marathon the summer after high school.

malmo wrote:

You're speaking for your lack of experience, not mine.

When he was a high school junior I thought he had the potential to be one of the best American TRACK runners ever. His senior year at Stanford he certainly showed that he had the potential to become the best 1/2 marathoner in history, with his 13:22 NCAA win (one of the best ever in meet history) and 13:16 at USATF.

My only point was: 99% (if not 100%) of people did not see him suddenly becoming the fastest US born marathoner in history BY FAR (and almost running 2:05), within a couple years of graduating college (or ever). Yes, there were certainly many who thought he could do great things on the track (as did I), and probably some like you that saw great 1/2 marathon potential (however, not too many were likely predicting a solo 59:43 1 1/2 years out of college, after seeming to be a 5k runner).

I agree the 2:10 in HS was probably very unlikely. My only point, to clarify one more time, was that he had incredible hidden marathon potential that his HS performances certainly did not predict, and even his college performances did not predict. But it was clearly there, and until he ran the longer races, no one really knew what his long distance potential was

(and as far as the 2 5k's you list, Ian Dobson ran the basically the same times in those races, right (and in fact, 13:15 in the 2nd race)? I think you would have been surprised if Ian Dobson ran 59:43 1.5 years later and then 2:08 and nearly break 2:06 a little later. )

All due respect to Larsen, but NO WAY. Hall may have been doing harder workouts, but it was because he was pushing himself harder in the workouts.

I know Steve Ortiz and he ran 28:31 in the OT 10k in 1980 I believe (while in college). I don't know if he ran faster while in college at other events.

Ritz ran 14:13, 13:52 and 13:44 while trying all-out for the record. I believe he could have run ~28:30 based on all that we know about him while still in HS. Hall could not have. Hall could not beat Ritz on the track or XC.

If Ritz could run 13:44/~28:30 he still could not have run 2:10:59 in HS. Hell, it took him like 4 tries to run it as a PRO. No way could Hall have run 2:10:59. He had trouble finishing mile races where he went out too fast and ended up running 4:10.

If Hall and Ritz had been doped like the pros are now (with everything and whatever they have been using since 1993) in HS I believe they could have run 13:20 / 27:50 in HS (just look at how much the WRs dropped when EPO became widespread? WRs dropped 19.03 secs and 45.48 secs in 6 yrs after having leveled off after 30 yrs of steroid and blood doping use). At least Ritz could have.

And in that case, they could have run 2:10:XX. The first time an American ran under 2:10 on a course besides Boston was Salazar running 2:09:41 for first place at NYCM (and beating Bill Rodgers) after running 13:23 / 27:49 in early September in Europe. Just 9 weeks later he ran 2:09:41 there in his debut.

But at that point Salazar had run 13:22 / 28:06 in 1979 and 13:23 / 27:49 in 1980 as a junior and 4th-year in college. Ryan Hall was nowhere near that level as a HS senior.

I think all of the sane among us can agree on that.

ScaryStuff wrote:

malmo wrote:

If you wired 100 Ryan Halls's brains together it wouldn't even come close to one Paul Gompers' brain, even with the flu and a hangover..

Damn'd Millennial over achiever, that one. (Teaches at Hah-vud Biz Skl). Makes us all look bad. I'm guessing he's not on the popular "marijuana and running" thread here.

Paul Gompers is not a millenial. He is about 20 years too old for that. He does make most people look bad though.

Tyrannosaurus Rexing wrote:

(and as far as the 2 5k's you list, Ian Dobson ran the basically the same times in those races, right (and in fact, 13:15 in the 2nd race)? I think you would have been surprised if Ian Dobson ran 59:43 1.5 years later and then 2:08 and nearly break 2:06 a little later. )

I didn't say anything about 59:43. The AR was 1:00:55. And NO, I would not expect that either would run a 2:06 marathon, and certainly NOT surprised that a 59:43 half marathon runner would soon run a 2:06 marathon.

This wasn't about the 4:00 mile (he ran 3:42.7 1500m). He had some training disrupted because he was taking accutane for zits at some point. But I remember reading that he ran a ten miler in high school, maybe somewhat downhill but at altitude, in something like 47:00. At the time everyone, except himself, thought he'd be a great marathoner.

malmo wrote:

douglas burke wrote:

Well Gompers ran 2:15 as a Junior, certainly Hall had more ability than Gompers, T.

If you wired 100 Ryan Halls's brains together it wouldn't even come close to one Paul Gompers' brain, even with the flu and a hangover.

To stick with the thread topic and answer the OP, NO, unequivocally NO, there was nothing about Hall's HS career that indicated the ability to run 2:10.

Maybe Hall could have run 2:10 in high school in the same sense that some people refer to him as a 2:04 marathoner. Maybe he could have run 2:10:58 with a strong tailwind at Boston. I doubt it, but you never know, as that 2:10:58 might be worth a 2:13 or so.

rojo wrote:

Big 3 - Hall, Ritz, and Webb - and how all are struggling except for Ritz.

was awful but this was quote stunned me.

All two of the three are struggling? Is that like all 66 cents out of a dollar except for the other 34 cents?

Rojo's writing is "awful but this was quote stunned me". He has the brainpower of a particularly dimwitted kindergartner. His parents must be very proud.

I think you are all forgetting one big factor about Hall that differentiates him from almost everyone mentioned in this thread. He was raised at altitude. It's not a coincidence that he's the fastest American-born half and full marathoner. We'd believe that plenty of Kenyan juniors could break 2:10, so why not Ryan Hall?