Cheserek ran 3 mile races under 3:59 in a 24.1 hour period at NCAAs. Were the coaches wise to also run him in the 3K?

fadsfsfd wrote: Coaches wouldn't be holding out their top runners if it didn't work. IT DOES WORK. Most distance runners can't run six or seven great 8k/10k races in a single season. It's just isn't happening. Overracing is a real problem, especially with indoors.

I have no doubt it works, but I still question whether the drastically reduced number of races is necessary in cross country.

Someone else in a previous post made a very valid example of Abbey D'Agostino in terms of too much track racing, so I'll concede the argument with regard to track. But I'm standing firm in my belief that cross country runners are being treated as if they're pvssies these days. If a kid can't race five or six 8Ks and then peak for two 10Ks (Districts, Nationals) between September and the third week of November, then the problem is likely over-training...NOT over-racing.

AmericansOnly wrote:

Am I the only one who is getting tired of Africans coming to the US and dominating the NCAA's? IMHO, it would be nice if US citizenship would be required to compete.

And yes, I understand that would include a few others as well from Canada and Europe.

I don't understand the desire to artificially create a pool so you can feel superior. Actually, I do understand, and perhaps everyone else just needs to realize that on a world level, you (they) may not be all that great.

Sack Up says.... "If a kid can't race five or six 8Ks and then peak for two 10Ks (Districts, Nationals) between September and the third week of November, then the problem is likely over-training...NOT over-racing."

The DI team I was on ran 5 races pre championship season and ran our top A squad at every meet. Almost every year, our early season results were solid while we consistently underperformed at Conference, Regionals, and for some Nationals.

I do not think the problem was overtraining. When you race you lose at least two quality training days. The first thing that tends to go with back to back weekend racing schedules are quality long runs which really hurts later in the season.

My former team has kept the same amount of meets but now rotates runners so most only have 2 or at most 3 races before the conference meet. The team has similar talent level recruits but performs much more consistently now.

The XC, Indoor, Outdoor collegiate season is brutal for most. Could some All-americans handle 7-8 races in XC season? Probably, but it wouldn't make them any better and I do think there is a real injury risk with heavy racing schedules. And the average #4-5 runner probably gets more improvement out of a quality training block than three all-out 8ks in three weekends. Maybe everyone is just a pansy like you believe but coaches seem to have figured out what works and what doesn't.

To the OP, I think Ches will be fine assuming he "recovers" with long race-free training block which seems to be the plan according to other posters.

oh please wrote:

AmericansOnly wrote:

Am I the only one who is getting tired of Africans coming to the US and dominating the NCAA's? IMHO, it would be nice if US citizenship would be required to compete.

And yes, I understand that would include a few others as well from Canada and Europe.

I don't understand the desire to artificially create a pool so you can feel superior. Actually, I do understand, and perhaps everyone else just needs to realize that on a world level, you (they) may not be all that great.

It's partially a scholarship issue with me. They're taking funding from US citizens.

Sack Up wrote:

If anything, college runners are coddled too much. Look at the cross country season, for example. The schedule of CC races is trending toward non-existent, and even those races are often skipped by the best runners on each team. Seems like the best teams will run their best guys maybe three times the entire fall (and that 3 includes the championship meet). I'm not sure I'd even enjoy running CC in this day and age...training rewarded with almost no racing.

Gotta say I disagree with you. Look at Europe, theres more to the train in fall and winter and compete in summer. I really dont think competeting i 3 seasons is the best way for an athlete to improve. Its necessary in the NCAA but not optimal, in my opinion. Obviously it depends on the runner, but I think a lot burn out from doing it and focus too much on peaking instead of just doing solid training, taking chances with injuries etc.

Agree

Agree on multiple parts. I think people can race 7-8 times in an xc season, IF those races are properly integrated into the larger training plan. Confidence wise, some younger guys need to race more often to get used to the longer distance and gain confidence as their times drop. A group of mature, experienced racers do not need that, especially when they have a history of performing when they are needed.

Not to mention that racing does not happen in a vacuum, and the race is usually accompanied by 4+ hours of traveling each way, sleeping in a hotel at least one night, missing classes for some, and the added emotional energy. Often our saturday workouts on our "off" weekends were more taxing physiologically, but we always were more recovered even after the sunday long run, than if we had raced.

Plus, we've already established that Cheserek is a stud, capable of handling heavy 10k training, I bet his body absorbs the extra racing fine compared to other mile-oriented runners, especially with a few days off.

Just my 2 cents.

Am I the only one who is getting tired of Africans coming to the US and dominating the NCAA's? IMHO, it would be nice if US citizenship would be required to compete.

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Oregon won the men's title and Arkansas the women's championship (over the Oregon women) because they both had African athletes who scored a lot of points. Is it worth giving up potential scholarships for some American kids in exchange for having some high caliber foreign athletes compete in the NCAA and raise the bar on performance? I guess that is a subject for another thread.

You guys are young bucks eh? This conversation has been going on long before you were born. The age rule was put in place after I competed to deal with a large degree of the PERCIEVED foreign disparity.

Note, I walked on to a notable D-1 school with a 4:20 HS mile on my resume'.

In college, I was a MUCH better runner and competitor because of the foreign runners. I even had them on my team which made me better in workouts. At that time, the foreign runners were the best in the world, not the 2nd or 3rd tier as now. The best foreign guys now, as we all know, go pro.

So, I really don't care that I never won an NCAA title even when I was the only American in the top 7 of my NCAA final and some of them were a lot older. That really doesn't matter to me. What does matter is that I was good enough to race these guys week in and week out. What I do know is that I placed in the top 10 in 4 different NCAA Division 1 finals dominated by the best international runners of that era.

So either get training (like a maniac for years) and buck up, or shut up!

As for over racing, the college coach is there to win championships. You guys dwell on the what ifs more than I can stand. VERY few college athletes go on to professional success. I tried for a while, but was interested in other life pursuits.

Yes and where is Abby today, sidelined with injury and burnout.

The Oregon mentality of points to win at the sacrifice of the athlete is a Vin carry over, look what it did to Jordan. Ches will be lucky to graduate in one piece as he will be the championship point designated athlete.

You bec that good when you at 18 only had the equivalent of a 4.07 1500m? Thats pretty bad at that age. Sounds unrealistic to improve that much.