Can we get NCAAs out of Indiana?

I volunteered for the meet when it was held at Furman( Go Buffs) and it was an amazing date. I believe it was lost because of political reasons. I also do not know why we can't use some historic places like Rim Rock Farm. If it was good enough for Goucher, it's gouod enough for Cheserek. then when can compare teams. I have no problem with TH , but the Final Four isn't in the Georgia Dome every year either. Let's have some variety.

NCAA Watcher wrote:

Having been to 18 of the last 20 D1 NCAA Cross Meets. TH is hands down the best venue. Wisconsin has a nicer running surface and is a nicer college town, but the course is not as spectator friendly, especially when the crowds are large, and lacks onsite parking, which can be remedied with their shuttle buses. Moving the meet back to Monday is something that really should happen. Attendance has been down the last few years with the D1 Meet on Saturday, and more class time is missed than is necessary.

Also, shocked that the meet is going back to Louisville...disappointed in that!

just an FYI, attendance was up this year, I do know that for certain.

And yes, having the meet at Louisville is AWFUL, awful course, awful for runners and spectators alike. After this next 3 year run (Louisville-Indiana State-Louisville) the meet needs to stay at Indiana State. All you people whining for one reason or another need to just need to get over it.

ISU has a system that WORKS, spectator friendly course, PLENTY of parking, easy access to the course from different directions, challenging course for runners, VERY well organized by the school, city, etc..., immediate results, none of this crap like what happened in Louisville 2 years ago with timing malfunctions and not knowing who won the women's team title until later.

Like someone said, who cares what city the meet is at, the OBJECT is to QUALIFY for the meet. Indiana State does an awesome job hosting this meet, get used to the fact that the meet will be run at LaVern-Gibson more often than not in future years. There is a lot more involved in putting this meet on than many of you who post on here will ever realize.

And I predict, just like after the meet in Louisville in 2012, coaches, athletes, and spectators will be screaming to get the meet back to Indiana State.

terrible haute wrote:

Shoe Tree wrote:

Sorry like it or not Terre Haute is the best place for the meet. Until another school puts up the facility, money and effort that Terre Haute does the meet shouldn't go anywhere else.

I bet if Terre Haute was home to a (big 5) school it wouldn't be an issue.

Get over it.... Small school, small town.....kicks ass when it comes to putting on good championships.

No one cares who the host school is! Terre Haute is a pit! The course isn't bad (although not the greatest spectator layout), but the town has gotta be one of the worst to ever host the meet. Certainly one of the worst college towns around.

once again, the meet is not about the town that hosts the meet, it's about the MEET, if you don't like Terre Haute that's your own priority, noone is forcing you to stay a week in Terre Haute, just go to the meet on raceday, then leave right after the race. Like I just said, ISU and TH have a system that works, you're just going to have a accept the fact that if you're going to be attending the meet you're going to be doing it at Lavern-Gibson more often than not in the future.

And like Shoe Tree wrote, If TH was home to a BCS school there'd be no complaints. Hold the meet where it's best organized for all involved, and that's at Lavern-Gibson. /thread

rojo wrote:

I've never understood what all of you said has to do with anything? For several reasons.

1) The NCAA pays for ALL travel for the team. All of it. So cost is irrelevant (unless you are talking about spectators).

2) Why does it matter if it's centrally located? Last time I checked the track meet is held in Eugene. That's far from Centrally located. The West coast kids can just leave a day earlier.

If the NCAA pays for the athletes, than you can assume I'm talking about parents, spectators, random fans, other college kids who want to attend, right?

How many of them are going to pay for a long weekend in NYC to see this? Boston? DC?

Wisco Fan wrote:

If the meet continues to be run on a Saturday, it will never be run in Madison. Like it or not, the AD won't mess with Big 10 football.

Odd point to make...football was at Iowa later in the afternoon on 11/22 and the basketball team played at the Kohl Center at 9 p.m.

Agreed on the parking issue at Zimmerman. If the cross country meet was a football game, people would be allowed to park on PD from Hwy. M to Mt. Horeb and Fitchburg and park on Hwy. M from PD to Madison and Verona. But because it's cross country and not football, the rednecks apparently have some say in not allowing parking on the gigantic shoulders of both county highways, even on the Friday events that start late morning or mid-afternoon.

rojo wrote:

1) The NCAA pays for ALL travel for the team. All of it. So cost is irrelevant (unless you are talking about spectators).

I wouldn't say it's irrelevant. Maybe there is no appreciable difference in cost to the NCAA by hosting it on a coast vs. a central location, but I can't imagine the cost to the NCAA not being at least a consideration in site selection.

The above comments describe many of the best things about keeping the meet in Terre Haute, so I won't bother repeating them. (Although I will risk repeating that the fans' perception of the quality - or lack thereof - of the town is completely irrelevant. It's about the meet and the meet venue more than it is about Terre Haute.)

RoJo made a point in his post that people like variety - which is true - but I also think there is something to be said for developing a tradition and following it. Making Terre Haute the permanent site of the NCAA XC championships would tie the destination to the overall goal of the runners and teams.

Every year college baseball teams set their sights on getting to Omaha for the College World Series, and I think it's fair to speculate that players often celebrate by shouting "We're going to Omaha!" when the goal is achieved. It probably sounds pretty cheesy, especially if you're not tied to Terre Haute or Indiana State, but I think it would be cool if XC runners and teams could likewise celebrate by shouting "We're going to XC Town USA" or "Terredise" or whatever has the best and most enduring ring to it.

Just my two cents...

I agree totally with your entire post with the exception of the attendance numbers. Are you sure you aren't thinking more this year from the last time it was in Louisville? That, I will believe. If the numbers are up at TH from 2013 to 2014 it can't be by much. I think there was always more people when the meet was on Monday?!?!

As of now, I'm leaning on going to Oshkosh for the D3 NCAA Meet instead of Louisville.

Indiana is NOT centrally located. Kansas is centrally located.

Put together a bid to bring it somewhere else.

You've got to hand it to Terre Haute. Their fanboys like to go full spittle off the chin when defending what they see as their birth right.

I don't know why everyone is bashing Louisville

Yeah, it might not be the most spectator friendly course, but it's a BLAZING FAST course, and I feel like that's what we need

Maybe not every year, but every maybe once every 3 years we need a course like Louisville, where runners can not only race, but to some really fast times...

2 years ago, the whole top 10 was under 29:30, and I think 32 people were under 30:00, that's what I like to see, not the winner coming in at 29:4x like last year or 30:19 like this year... Some of this was from conditions, but in Louisville the conditions are rarely ever bad as they are in TH and Zimmerman...

All in all, I think we need to stick with 3 courses... Why? Because course record are important, and I think it kind of builds a tradition, and lets us see how people did relative to other years...

I don't understand.

Football and Basketball make decisions based on what would be best in terms of getting spectators to the competitions. Their ADs understand that what's best for spectators is ultimately what's best for the sport.

Why are runners so up tight about this?

My vote goes for putting the meets as close to large cities as possible. Most have thriving communities of hobby joggers. I think they'll become fans if given the opportunity.

So what if some teams take a 6 hour flight instead of a 4 hour flight. These are top athletes. They'll survive. I remember Texas winning 3 races at the Penn Relays one year. They didn't seem to be at a competitive disadvantage compared to Villanova..

NOP skeptic, you are an idiot. Cross country is a different sport from track for a reason. No true XC runner, or spectator, loves a pancake flat course over one with incredible hills.

To the poster above who said terre haute is challenging: what world do you live in? The course is FAR too easy for a national championship. A course with greater variety and challenges would be a Bette test of runner strength. Look at the balboa course for FL.

If you want a pancake course, why not Lehigh?

Wait, really...why not Lehigh? The Paul short meet is fantastic every year.

If you were at TH in 2013 and 2014 and don't think there were more people there this year I don't think you were paying attention. Hopefully attendance numbers will back up what I and others think but there were a ton more people there this year. In 2013 going from spot to spot in the guys race was no issue and several spots there was no one around us. This year several spots we couldn't get to a place on the line and it was packed 3 deep. We started skipping the next spot to have room at the one after that but by he time the race got there we were crowded over. We also got their earlier than last year and the parking lot we had parked in last year was already full.

wizardstaff wrote:

My vote goes for putting the meets as close to large cities as possible. Most have thriving communities of hobby joggers. I think they'll become fans if given the opportunity.

..

Hobby joggers will never outnumber teammates, families, and people with other direct connections to the team. I'd imagine that with the exception of TH and Eugene, most hobby joggers have no clue when an NCAA track/xc event is in town.

Indoor? wrote:

If you were at TH in 2013 and 2014 and don't think there were more people there this year I don't think you were paying attention. Hopefully attendance numbers will back up what I and others think but there were a ton more people there this year. In 2013 going from spot to spot in the guys race was no issue and several spots there was no one around us. This year several spots we couldn't get to a place on the line and it was packed 3 deep. We started skipping the next spot to have room at the one after that but by he time the race got there we were crowded over. We also got their earlier than last year and the parking lot we had parked in last year was already full.

Show me the numbers...also would like to see the numbers from back when the meet was on a Monday. Just seems like there were much less people lately from my eye ball recall. Having the meet on Saturday makes it much harder for college kids to road trip compared to a Monday meet. I see no advantage of having the meet on Saturday.

I would make a strong argument to not go any further north than TH.

Facts Please wrote:

Show me the numbers...also would like to see the numbers from back when the meet was on a Monday. Just seems like there were much less people lately from my eye ball recall. Having the meet on Saturday makes it much harder for college kids to road trip compared to a Monday meet. I see no advantage of having the meet on Saturday.

I live in Indy. So I went on Saturday. I have no idea how the numbers compare. I wouldn't go on a Monday, don't want to take off work. So you may get some casual fans like me who are willing to show up on a weekend as opposed to a weekday. However, I agree the meet should be arranged to get the most impact for college runners and their friends/family/etc. So if that's a Monday, so be it.